"Got an RA..."

killbilly

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This was weird...

Departed KAUS this afternoon around 16:00 local, took off from 35R, got an immediate turn to 310 to head out toward AQO.

Departure calls traffic - a 737 - I start looking. It's hazy as hell and I can't see him. Bumpy, too - it's more than light chop but less than moderate turb. I don't see the 737, I let em' know, Departure comes back and says no factor. Okay, fine. Continue climbing to 3500.

Around 3,000 they call an RJ. I start looking...I see him right as he sees me, he calls me in sight, passes to the south of me. No biggie. Departure tells me to resume own nav, climb to 4500. Okay, cool.

About 3 minutes later I look up. I'm guessing about 1500-2000 feet above me there is a jet - not sure what kind - RJ, I think, and headed directly at me. I'm surprised, level a bit as he passes over. Departure calls me out to him, he says, "Yeah, got an RA..." (I'm guessing on the vertical separation - still learning to estimate distances in the air)

I was under the impression that an RA was a bad thing. Did I screw up? No one told me I goofed or anything, so I'm assuming I didn't. And neither Departure nor the RJ sounded particularly annoyed. It just surprised me.

So what happened? Did I cause an RA?

(Unrelated side note - just about every make and model of corporate aircraft was on the ramp at KAUS today. Apparently the Arkansas-UT game was a huge draw - the ramp was packed to the gills with all sorts of jets, t-props, and a fair amount of Cirruses and 182s. But the icing on the cake was a Marine AH-1 Cobra which came in and landed at Signature. That thing was waaaaaay cool. )
 
My guess is he got a TA not a RA.

Dunno, but I specifically heard "RA" on the radio. I don't even know what it stands for. TA, I'm assuming, is traffic advisory.

Cooper's BBQ is teh good.

Stopped long enough to top off, and then headed out to JCT. Pretty country out there. There's about 9 cats at the FBO in JCT who totally sucked at cleaning my windshield, so I told them not to bother. Although the tabbies showed promise...
 
This was weird...

Departed KAUS this afternoon around 16:00 local, took off from 35R, got an immediate turn to 310 to head out toward AQO.

Departure calls traffic - a 737 - I start looking. It's hazy as hell and I can't see him. Bumpy, too - it's more than light chop but less than moderate turb. I don't see the 737, I let em' know, Departure comes back and says no factor. Okay, fine. Continue climbing to 3500.

Around 3,000 they call an RJ. I start looking...I see him right as he sees me, he calls me in sight, passes to the south of me. No biggie. Departure tells me to resume own nav, climb to 4500. Okay, cool.

About 3 minutes later I look up. I'm guessing about 1500-2000 feet above me there is a jet - not sure what kind - RJ, I think, and headed directly at me. I'm surprised, level a bit as he passes over. Departure calls me out to him, he says, "Yeah, got an RA..." (I'm guessing on the vertical separation - still learning to estimate distances in the air)

I was under the impression that an RA was a bad thing. Did I screw up? No one told me I goofed or anything, so I'm assuming I didn't. And neither Departure nor the RJ sounded particularly annoyed. It just surprised me.

So what happened? Did I cause an RA?

(Unrelated side note - just about every make and model of corporate aircraft was on the ramp at KAUS today. Apparently the Arkansas-UT game was a huge draw - the ramp was packed to the gills with all sorts of jets, t-props, and a fair amount of Cirruses and 182s. But the icing on the cake was a Marine AH-1 Cobra which came in and landed at Signature. That thing was waaaaaay cool. )

It sounds like you were the aircraft that generated the jet's resolution advisory.

I do not think you need to be concerned though. The controller knew you were climbing and the jet was descending. Perhaps the rates of climb and descent were mis-judged a bit causing the RA.
 
It sounds like you were the aircraft that generated the jet's resolution advisory.

I do not think you need to be concerned though. The controller knew you were climbing and the jet was descending. Perhaps the rates of climb and descent were mis-judged a bit causing the RA.

Sometimes you get a TA that turns into an RA. Could have been a TA and the guy said RA. Or on the other hand, it coulda just been a TA.


I am not sure on this, as I havent found a definitive answer, but I always thought to get a RA both a/c had to have TCASII as the mode S had to sync up to say "I go up and you go down, etc". If you had a target that was just mode C or TAS it would only give a TA vice RA.

mods: feel free to delete the two previous posts. No clue how I managed that.
 
Sometimes you get a TA that turns into an RA. Could have been a TA and the guy said RA. Or on the other hand, it coulda just been a TA.


I am not sure on this, as I havent found a definitive answer, but I always thought to get a RA both a/c had to have TCASII as the mode S had to sync up to say "I go up and you go down, etc". If you had a target that was just mode C or TAS it would only give a TA vice RA.

I think though, that I got an RA once from a GA airplane going into EWR. It was hazy and we were down low near the cluster of smaller airports in north New Jersey and we got a climb RA and if I remember correctly the controller was not talking to them but we did get an RA and it was not a business jet going into TEB or MMU because that controller would have been talking to them if it was.
 
Some info from my TCAS notes. TCAS can issue an RA as long as the other aircraft has a mode C or mode S transponder.

1. TCAS can only detect aircraft with transponders turned on.

2. TCAS will only generate RAs for aircraft with altitude reporting transponders (Mode C or S).

3. TCAS commands do not take into consideration aircraft performance. (i.e. A climb command could activate stick shakers and cause a stall.)

4. TCAS only commands vertical speed corrections. Course changes are not considered. (i.e. You could turn yourself into an RA alert.)
 
Could be. Now i need to go dig up an answer, maybe tomorrow. Unless it was a TBM or caravan flying vfr.. I know we got a TA off a Caravan we had visual near White Plains once.
 
Dunno, but I specifically heard "RA" on the radio. I don't even know what it stands for. TA, I'm assuming, is traffic advisory.



Stopped long enough to top off, and then headed out to JCT. Pretty country out there. There's about 9 cats at the FBO in JCT who totally sucked at cleaning my windshield, so I told them not to bother. Although the tabbies showed promise...


RA is a Resolution Adivsory. The airplane will tell you to climb or descend, and give you a visual depiction of the required change to avoid conflict. I have known pilots to us "RA" when they are a little ticked that traffic wasn't called to them. 1500 -2000 ft is well within the seperation requirements, so i would assume that the descent rate of the jet, and your turning climb took you from intruder to threat in a manner that exceeded the threshold of a "TA"

As long as you were doing as instructed, you have done no wrong. Just remember that it's a system designed to proactivly prevent mid air collisions, so it will always call things worse than they are.

Filing a NASA report is never a bad idea, data like that is used to further refine the systems, to reduce false alerts. The three RA calls that ours give, are, "Climb" "Descend" or "Moniter Vertical Speed" MVS means if your not carefull, or continue what you are doing, there will be a problem.

I've gotten RA's from gliders before. Mode c is all they need. Mode S means the a/c will communicate and work out the best resolution. I spent lots of time dodging GA craft in RKD, BHB, and get RA's all the time west bound over southern CT still. The HFD-CMK area is shooting gallery, all the VFR departures off BDL, new haven etc... all heading north east. My PR is 5 RA's on one flt from MVY to LGA, 3 while holding over nobbie, 1 just out of MVY, and 1 from BOS arrival traffic over PVD
 
It's not a big deal. There are many kinds of Resolution Advisories such as "Monitor Vertical Speed", "Descend", "Descend NOW", "Climb", "Climb NOW", "Reduce Vertical Speed", and "Increase Vertical Speed". I wrote those in no particular order but there is a varying level of urgency.

I suspect that the RJ was being slam-dunked with a high rate of VS. He probably got a "Monitor Vertical Speed", the lowest priority. TCAS does not take into consideration what yours or his level off altitudes are.
 
It's not a big deal. There are many kinds of Resolution Advisories such as "Monitor Vertical Speed", "Descend", "Descend NOW", "Climb", "Climb NOW", "Reduce Vertical Speed", and "Increase Vertical Speed". I wrote those in no particular order but there is a varying level of urgency.

I suspect that the RJ was being slam-dunked with a high rate of VS. He probably got a "Monitor Vertical Speed", the lowest priority. TCAS does not take into consideration what yours or his level off altitudes are.

Thanks all.

Traffic at KAUS was weird yesterday. There was 121 traffic using 35L AND 35R, and GA traffic was mostly going out on 35R, but they were bringing stuff in on 17L, too. There is a lot of construction going on at the east side of the airport, so they had us doing things like runups on taxiway intersections, etc. Also a TFR over the stadium (for the UT Game) and more bizjet traffic than I have ever seen, ever, anywhere. Had to be 100+ airplanes on the ramp yesterday.

I'll file the NASA form, if anything just to get familiar with the process.

I was just really afraid that I inadvertently caused a problem yesterday. It sounds like I didn't. I went back over my procedures and what they had me doing and I pretty much followed all instructions. There's only so much getting-the-hell-out-of-the-way you can do in a 152, though.
 
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