queeno
Ward of the Guberment
DUAAAAAA, of course the FFA hired OTS, but from 2000 to 2006 it was CTIs and VRAs only.
Good time to be applying for an ATC position?
- Thread starter Xfire
- Start date
DUAAAAAA, of course the FFA hired OTS, but from 2000 to 2006 it was CTIs and VRAs only.
jermscentral
Well-Known Member
and
Regardless of misspellings, these are true statements. I never guessed I'd agree with queeno on anything, but he speaks truth there. You can learn techniques, but you can't learn how to do the mental processes responsible for doing this job. You either can or you can't. School can teach you what to say, but if you can't get the picture, you're not going to make it.
Bernoulli Fan
Controller
You will encounter many guys like queeno at your facility if and when you get picked up. They have a lot of experience with the "FFA." I didn't realize before I started how right queeno is about most things he posts.
In any case, I've learned through experience that even if you're sure you're right, it's best to say "OK" and keep your head down; you will not win the argument, right or wrong. They will probably even tell you this at the academy, but I'll second it here. You might be surprised by how fast your opinions change.
SIUav8er
Narcosis
Cant agree more! CTI is a freakin joke...
Cheezypoof
Well-Known Member
When it comes to actually getting a job right now... yah CTI or VRA is the way to go. As far as aptitude for the job, you have it or you don't... it cannot be taught. Doesn't matter if your the valedictorian or the homeless guy with the golden voice.
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
"There was an article back in April about how 1 in 5 ATC trainees washes out, so it does seem that the FAA's methodology leaves something to be desired."
One in five washed out? Heck, in my class (mid-1980's), only four out of twenty passed the initial screen. I wasn't one of them. Though heartbroken at the time, it was probably one of the best things that even happened to me....
One in five washed out? Heck, in my class (mid-1980's), only four out of twenty passed the initial screen. I wasn't one of them. Though heartbroken at the time, it was probably one of the best things that even happened to me....
chris325ci
New Member
Why do you think no one in there right mind with a BS would go back to school for this? Better job prospects? Ha! You sound like Blakey making a sell for paying us less. $150k+ per year and a govt job at that. I can't think of any BS degrees that will get you this kind of money so early in your career, let alone most graduate degrees. A few extra years of school will pay off dividends IF you can find ATC to be a good fit.
Also, I can assure you that the 1 in 5 washout rate is low since they aren't accounting for washouts that get reassigned to lower level facilities (most of them). I work at a center and the washout rate is closer to 50%. Over the years I've found that you really can't believe most things the FAA says to be 100% factual in press releases related to this job.
genot
Well-Known Member
Yeah. When I wanted the job after earning a BS CTI was my ONLY option. Too old for a realistic shot at military ATC then FAA. I took a whopping 4 classes (mental overload ::whew:
received my CTI certification and ended up a level 10 CPC "only" tripling my previous salary as a college graduate cubicle monkey based off of my BS. What in God's green earth was I thinking? I know it would make sense if there was some catch like a pension or early retirement (or wait there is). Yeah I'd be better off making a fraction of what I make dealing with an industry I care nothing about and fly by night 3rd party bennies.
genot
Well-Known Member
Sorry for a second post, but its an unrelated tangent (and this isn't to start an OTS/CTI/VRA/College degree/no degree debate but). To even compare traffic levels in Australia or England to the US is completely and utterly absurd. I get it. London is busy. Gatwick, Luton and Heathrow, but I'm fairly sure JFK, LGA and EWR are combined FAR busier. I'd bet the farm the NY area is FAR more complex and busy, but comparing Sydney? Thats just going to show how little you actually know.
chris325ci
New Member
Good posts! I really do feel that this job is a hidden gem. I enjoy the work, it's challenging, great vacation, pay, pension, job security, etc. Sure, the shift work sucks and some days the traffic volume/complexity leaves me ready for a nap after work, but overall job satisfaction is high. And I LOVE not having to really report to anyone... Meaning, if I do my job right, management leaves me alone. Show up to work on time, don't have an error, and keep break times in check and no one messes with me. No one pestering me to increase my workload, no politics, no asking me to show up on my day off, etc. This is a huge plus IMO!
It puzzles me why some considering this job would even think twice about putting in an extra year or two of effort to do this. Yeah, you might wash out and training absolutely SUCKED, but once I checked out, it was gravy. I make more money than my brother/sister-in-law (both are physicians) and WAY more than my girlfriend (attorney). This doesn't even count for the pension/early retirement/much shorter work hours. My brother jokes that he'll tell his son to be an air traffic controller when he grows up and not a doctor like himself.
As far as other countries traffic count... Don't know if it's true, but I recall John Carr (old NATCA president) claiming that Cleveland Center works more annual traffic than all of Canada combined! This article below should give you an idea about how much more traffic we work (Specifically, the US handled 70% more flights than Euro Control last year with 7% less controllers!). A good read:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704530204576234323376812908.html?mod=WSJ_topics_obama
Olisse
Well-Known Member
I'm just about to start ATC school in Spain I'm just about to start ATC school in Spain and so I'm no expert but I can give a European opinion. Yes, the UK accepts OTS applicants for their course but think of the size of the UK compared to the US, not only in terms of traffic but also in terms of population, the entire UK doesn't reach 50m people so there re considerably fewer applicants to screen than there would be in the States.
The UK accepts OTS applicants but as far as I'm aware they are pretty much the only Europeans to do so, certainly in Spain, where I'm going to school, you have to finance your own initial training, and I think the UK will go the same way in the not too distant future, there are already options to do this.
I recently saw a video detailing the amount of air traffic in the world and you really can't compare the situation in the US to anywhere else, you lot have much much more! The reason Eurocontrol has more controllers is probably because the European Single Sky is still not fully up and running and so there are still almost 30 countries to coordinate. Plus, with the possible exception of the New York area, we have a higher concentration of airports in general, so that's an added complication. And that's without considering trying to get all the Brits/French/Germans/Spaniards etc to agree with each other, never an easy task! In summary, you can't really compare the situations, they're totally different.
Whether or not it's worth trying to get in will have to be a personal choice, do you think you stand to lose more if you try and fail or if you never try?
The UK accepts OTS applicants but as far as I'm aware they are pretty much the only Europeans to do so, certainly in Spain, where I'm going to school, you have to finance your own initial training, and I think the UK will go the same way in the not too distant future, there are already options to do this.
I recently saw a video detailing the amount of air traffic in the world and you really can't compare the situation in the US to anywhere else, you lot have much much more! The reason Eurocontrol has more controllers is probably because the European Single Sky is still not fully up and running and so there are still almost 30 countries to coordinate. Plus, with the possible exception of the New York area, we have a higher concentration of airports in general, so that's an added complication. And that's without considering trying to get all the Brits/French/Germans/Spaniards etc to agree with each other, never an easy task! In summary, you can't really compare the situations, they're totally different.
Whether or not it's worth trying to get in will have to be a personal choice, do you think you stand to lose more if you try and fail or if you never try?
AnImbroglio
Well-Known Member
Out of sheer curiosity (and sorry to hijack the thread temporarily) but some guys at my facility were talking about spanish controllers... Could I ask what the starting pay there is?
Guy
Well-Known Member
I know you are thinking "what are my odds of getting a job", but let me give you the advice I give everyone who wants to go to work for the government. Put in your application and keep putting in your application. There are a great many twists and turns and special rules to government employment, but there is one consistent standard. They don't hire people who haven't applied for the job.
I'll also give you my number two piece of advice when looking for a government job. Live your life as if it is never going to happen. Don't think that because you are number one on the list to get hired and there is a desperate need for people in that job that you will soon be hired and make any life decisions based on that assumption. The government is notoriously ineffective and inefficient (because they are controlled by Congress). So don't try to apply common sense when assessing your chances of getting hired. Keep putting in applications, but never assume it is going to happen.
I'll also give you my number two piece of advice when looking for a government job. Live your life as if it is never going to happen. Don't think that because you are number one on the list to get hired and there is a desperate need for people in that job that you will soon be hired and make any life decisions based on that assumption. The government is notoriously ineffective and inefficient (because they are controlled by Congress). So don't try to apply common sense when assessing your chances of getting hired. Keep putting in applications, but never assume it is going to happen.
Olisse
Well-Known Member
No one knows! They are in the process of privatizing the whole organisation that currently takes care of Air Navigation services and the first privatized towers should start operating in 2012. Until we actually know who gets the tender to provide Air Traffic Control at the first 13 private towers we won't know what the salary is going to be. So it's definitely a gamble!