Good crop dusting info (planes not your butt)

Cessnaflyer

Cessnaflyer

Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
You'd be surprised how many times people have asked me about farting :insane:

Anyways... I did a google search and I came up with some basic info about how to become a crop duster. I am really out of my league right now on where to start being a city boy and all.

A little about me might help first.

I am a CFI with about 700 hours only about 10 hours of tail wheel. In two years hopefully I would like to own my own smaller aircraft but I don't know if I should go the route of old like a Piper or some newer ones I've seen around. The insurance would probably kill me trying to operate a Thrush.

My future wifes family grows dryland wheat in Washington State and they would use me for spraying. There land is 15,000 acres so that would leave me with about 7,500 to do each summer. Not nearly enough to keep a family living but we all have to start somewhere.
 
My freinds dad has done it for close to 30 years. I don't know all the details about it either, but it's my understanding that you have to be about half farmer. Plus you always have to worry about your chemical drifting into someone elses field and getting sued. Hitting power lines and bird strikes are a constant concern, as well as engine faliures. One time a bird got jammed in his elevator and he had to land with just the trim. Different kind of flying to be sure.
 
BCTAv8r said:
Do the chemicals used impose a lot of hazards in the long-term?
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In many cases, yes. Most pesticides are basicly diluted nerve gas. Almost all are cancer causeing.

However taking proper precautions will keep you from getting sick. Depending on the chemicals being dropped, the pilot may have to wear a respirator.
 
USMCmech said:
In many cases, yes. Most pesticides are basicly diluted nerve gas. Almost all are cancer causeing.
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Some, not most are nerve agents. Most insecticides these days are some type of sythetic pyrethin or resmethrin, and a lot are the same ingredients that you can find in your everyday household bug sprays.

And yes, in enough of a quantity and with direct contact, any chemical is a carcinogen, however, with the advances not only in chemical production but application techniques, the risk to the operator has decreased a lot in the past couple of decades.

USMCmech said:
However taking proper precautions will keep you from getting sick. Depending on the chemicals being dropped, the pilot may have to wear a respirator.
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Never seen an ag pilot wear a respirator. Never even was required to wear one myself and the chemicals were were spraying were readily absorbed not only through direct skin contact, but also inhalation. Chemical spills and fumes are a big deal, and steps are taken to prevent any unnecessary contact with the chemicals. Ag pilots these days fly in enclosed and air conditioned cockpits and the material being applied is released from the airplane in a physical location as to not affect the pilot. Even the hoppers are well sealed and vented out the bottom of the airplane.
 
Cessnaflyer said:
I am a CFI with about 700 hours only about 10 hours of tail wheel. In two years hopefully I would like to own my own smaller aircraft but I don't know if I should go the route of old like a Piper or some newer ones I've seen around. The insurance would probably kill me trying to operate a Thrush.
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Another thing to consider with insurance other than total time and tailwheel time... that is agricultural time. Where I worked, the insurance company required 100 hours of ag time before any pilot could be insured as PIC for application flights. Just something to think about.

Cessnaflyer said:
My future wifes family grows dryland wheat in Washington State and they would use me for spraying. There land is 15,000 acres so that would leave me with about 7,500 to do each summer. Not nearly enough to keep a family living but we all have to start somewhere.
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Not sure about the not enough money part as I am not knowledgeable about the going rate per acre in that part of the world. Generally, an operator will charge a certain price per acre sprayed (say $8), and the pilot gets a certain percentage of that amount (say 15%). On top of that, generally most crops are going to be sprayed more than once (probably along the average of about 3 times), more if it is a crop that requires some type of aerially applied fertilizer.

So, with those numbers in mind... some quick math... 7500 acres at $8 and acre 3 times with the pilot getting 15% of gross... comes out to about $27K...
 
ctab5060X said:
Another thing to consider with insurance other than total time and tailwheel time... that is agricultural time. Where I worked, the insurance company required 100 hours of ag time before any pilot could be insured as PIC for application flights. Just something to think about.
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How do you get dual AG time?

ctab5060X said:
Not sure about the not enough money part as I am not knowledgeable about the going rate per acre in that part of the world. Generally, an operator will charge a certain price per acre sprayed (say $8), and the pilot gets a certain percentage of that amount (say 15%). On top of that, generally most crops are going to be sprayed more than once (probably along the average of about 3 times), more if it is a crop that requires some type of aerially applied fertilizer.

So, with those numbers in mind... some quick math... 7500 acres at $8 and acre 3 times with the pilot getting 15% of gross... comes out to about $27K...
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They were just charged $21K for an application. I didn't ask more about it since I was late to work. I guess I'll dig a little more when I go back to the ranch today.
 
TallFlyer said:
How long does it take to spray 7500 acres?
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An AT-502 could spray close to 5000 acres in a long day, about sunrise to sunset. Application rate (gallons/acre) would obviously factor in also.

To the OP, one of my mentors says the best way to get into Ag flying is to get to know an operator. Basically networking, go figure. One way to do this is to be a mixer/loader for a season or two.

More advice I've been given is that total time is not worth all that much. Reason being tailwheel time is so much more highly valued, this coming from one source about getting on with an operator that you're acquainted with.

Also, I've heard more pilots advise against Ag schools since your spending several grand and get only a few hours of ag flying. The money would be better spent renting a tailwheel.
 
TallFlyer said:
How long does it take to spray 7500 acres?
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It depends on what size airplane you have, how much volume you are putting to the acre (2 gallon-5 gallon-10 gallon) and how far you are having to ferry.

With one of the bigger planes at a low volume, you could expect to do it in a couple of days of running. Maybe three.

Lots of variables involved.
 
I heard that the pesticide is basically less concentrated nerve gas.... Isn't that something to be concerned about?
 
I'm just thinking out loud, but if the OP could acquire an Ag aircraft could he use it on his in-laws land without any major insurance issues since it would be his aircraft on family property?

And it would seem that www.controller.com has a few ag planes on it. Those old biplane grumman ag cats look interesting....
 
TallFlyer said:
I'm just thinking out loud, but if the OP could acquire an Ag aircraft could he use it on his in-laws land without any major insurance issues since it would be his aircraft on family property?

And it would seem that www.controller.com has a few ag planes on it. Those old biplane grumman ag cats look interesting....
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The only way to get around the insurance is to self insure. The old planes you are talking about can be bought for around 30-50,000. I don't know his financial situation, but if something happens, there is no safety net. Also, even if he does"nt carry hull insurance, he will still have to have drift coverage. I'm not sure if working for the in-laws will help or not. If I were betting, I would say no.
 
ahmed said:
I heard that the pesticide is basically less concentrated nerve gas.... Isn't that something to be concerned about?
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If it were I think the founders of the company I work for would all be dead seeing as they started back in the '50s. Hearing stories of how crop dusting was done years ago compared to now, I have no qualms about being around the stuff.

The chemicals are becoming less toxic/hazardous and the regulations are becoming more restrictive.
 
I know a few Ag fliers in the area. The problem right now is that both my peak season and ag peak season are the same time so its hard to jump from instructing when I am so busy to load some planes. Also another problem is the one operator I know the best sprays their land so I'm not sure he would take to kindly on me taking his business.

As for distance to ferry luckily it would only be a few feet :) They have a runway on site.

I also have a friend that bought a tailwheel so he could get the 100hrs required to spray for mosquitos so I will pay him for some tailwheel time.

Thank you so much for the advice!
 
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