Good Captains

Dphoenix said:
Obviously I wouldn't unless life and limb were at risk. But they gotta stay somewhere...
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No. Just no. You're not as good as you think that you are. Chances are you are no better than the professional sitting to your right.

If you think things are SO bad that you need to take control of the airplane do everyone a favor and SAY GO AROUND!

Good grief. How many people have you on their "no fly" list?

I shared this post with a few other pilots today, and without exception it was met incredulously.


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I hear ya and I think you took it the wrong way, or more likely I said it the wrong way. Yeah, it's not like I'm shadowing the controls, I just keep my hands on my knees and I'm always actively monitoring, is more the sentiment I was going for. Not the idea that I am better than anybody or would do a better job. In 5 years yet I have yet to touch a control without being asked for it, and I absolutely agree given the Southwest situation etc there's probably /exceedingly/ few scenarios in which it would be the right course of action. I've had CA tell me things like the FO applied the brakes on the ground saying they were taxiing too fast etc and also meet that incredulously. I can see how you wouldn't like my phrasing, I should have just said ready. But I still think being ready in a situation like jammed control, or pilot incapacitation, obviously we'd go around, but might need to take it on the go around depending on what's going on. For me, it's just a mental thing more with monitoring and being ready and mentally still flying the plane even as a pilot monitoring rather than sitting back with chair leaned all the way back checked out.
 
ZapBrannigan said:
No. Just no. You're not as good as you think that you are. Chances are you are no better than the professional sitting to your right.

If you think things are SO bad that you need to take control of the airplane do everyone a favor and SAY GO AROUND!

Good grief. How many people have you on their "no fly" list?

I shared this post with a few other pilots today, and without exception it was met incredulously.


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That's kinda out of line man.



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ZapBrannigan said:
No. Just no. You're not as good as you think that you are. Chances are you are no better than the professional sitting to your right.

If you think things are SO bad that you need to take control of the airplane do everyone a favor and SAY GO AROUND!

Good grief. How many people have you on their "no fly" list?

I shared this post with a few other pilots today, and without exception it was met incredulously.


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It's been a LONG time since you've been at a regional.

Most (many) of the FOs are just fine, but having to grab an airplane from someone short final is a real thing, and not just for checkairmen doing IOE. At least it was 5 years ago.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
I usually have my hands on each around TOD. Constant vigilance.
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Cptnchia said:
Here's the thing. @ZapBrannigan and I have been doing this airline thing for 20+ years. I'd be very interested in your viewpoint when you've been at it as long and seen what we've seen.
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All your experience means a less polite term for zero to me if you're going to toss insults and bully someone.

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trafficinsight said:
All your experience means a less polite term for zero to me if you're going to toss insults and bully someone.

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Granted his bedside manner could use an upgrade, but it seems like you may be in for a looong career. You appear to keep taking the contradictory position against those with more experience than you.

Not saying you should follow a gear up, shut up position, but there is a reason that those with several thousand hours of experience seem to be in agreement on most airline related issues.

Is it good to question things? You betcha! But a "I don't care a fig what you think or know" position is cutting off your nose to spite your face. Or not. YMMV.
 
Last captain I rode with that was all jittery nervous shadowing giving me answers to tell ATC like the "say mach number" example in a previous post... I very patiently strictly observe sterile till 10k and then just out of the blue ask them how many engine failures they have had. I've found the overly nervous, over controlling guys have usually never faced any real adversity. When they finally get around to asking me the same "get to know you how many have you had" I'll then tell them about my two helicopter engine failures. As others have said, just because someone is in the right seat doesn't mean they know squat. Unfortunately the Capn's that need to read this thread never will.
 
Cptnchia said:
Granted his bedside manner could use an upgrade, but it seems like you may be in for a looong career. You appear to keep taking the contradictory position against those with more experience than you.

Not saying you should follow a gear up, shut up position, but there is a reason that those with several thousand hours of experience seem to be in agreement on most airline related issues.

Is it good to question things? You betcha! But a "I don't care a fig what you think or know" position is cutting off your nose to spite your face. Or not. YMMV.
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I really don't know what to tell you.

I got my first job as a fueler and apprentice mechanic 15 years ago. I've been flying professionally for 8 years, granted I've only been in a 121 flight deck for 2 years now, but I feel like I've had a great career so far. Some captains don't like me, I'm sure, but I've received praise for my work as well, even from captains who I considered difficult.

Not a single person until this week has said a single thing about how my hand placement during an approach has annoyed them.

You say it's okay to question things but I dunno, this thread makes me kinda not want to, here anyway.

As an FO, if you have a personal preference about something I'm doing that you don't like, let me know and I'll stop. This is personal SOP and I do it all the time. I'll even try to remember for the next time we fly.

I said that before, but maybe you missed it.

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ZapBrannigan said:
No. Just no. You're not as good as you think that you are. Chances are you are no better than the professional sitting to your right.

If you think things are SO bad that you need to take control of the airplane do everyone a favor and SAY GO AROUND!

Good grief. How many people have you on their "no fly" list?

I shared this post with a few other pilots today, and without exception it was met incredulously.


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I did the same thing at the same airline as him. I was a line check airman and those habits die hard when you're teaching guys how to flare their first jet.

Hate me.
 
CatchyScreenName said:
Last captain I rode with that was all jittery nervous shadowing giving me answers to tell ATC like the "say mach number" example in a previous post... I very patiently strictly observe sterile till 10k and then just out of the blue ask them how many engine failures they have had. I've found the overly nervous, over controlling guys have usually never faced any real adversity. When they finally get around to asking me the same "get to know you how many have you had" I'll then tell them about my two helicopter engine failures. As others have said, just because someone is in the right seat doesn't mean they know squat. Unfortunately the Capn's that need to read this thread never will.
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"Real" pilots compare how many engine failures they've had in a single engine jet (F4) and then, when tied, figure out who has had the fewest number of swings under canopy after ejecting before hitting the ground.
 
trafficinsight said:
I really don't know what to tell you.

I got my first job as a fueler and apprentice mechanic 15 years ago. I've been flying professionally for 8 years, granted I've only been in a 121 flight deck for 2 years now, but I feel like I've had a great career so far. Some captains don't like me, I'm sure, but I've received praise for my work as well, even from captains who I considered difficult.

Not a single person until this week has said a single thing about how my hand placement during an approach has annoyed them.

You say it's okay to question things but I dunno, this thread makes me kinda not want to, here anyway.

As an FO, if you have a personal preference about something I'm doing that you don't like, let me know and I'll stop. This is personal SOP and I do it all the time. I'll even try to remember for the next time we fly.

I said that before, but maybe you missed it.

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Personally, I couldn't care less where someone puts their hands. My triggers are Guard hooligans, people who use the term "fish finder," and the "seeeYAH!" Crowd. Outside of those, I get along with pretty much everybody.

Except those that want to talk politics and religion.

Besides those, I'm easy.

Oh, and people who are intolerant of people from other countries. And the Dutch.
 
Cptnchia said:
Personally, I couldn't care less where someone puts their hands. My triggers are Guard hooligans, people who use the term "fish finder," and the "seeeYAH!" Crowd. Outside of those, I get along with pretty much everybody.

Except those that want to talk politics and religion.

Besides those, I'm easy.

Oh, and people who are intolerant of people from other countries. And the Dutch.
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Hey now, as ATC I like the seeYA guys.
 
NovemberEcho said:
Hey now, as ATC I like the seeYA guys.
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I knew there was something sketchy about you!;)

Although, I did hear a controller at London Control attempt it one morning. He butchered it so badly, I was concerned he had physically hurt himself. Couldn't stop laughing. I don't think he ever tried it again.
 
jtrain609 said:
I did the same thing at the same airline as him. I was a line check airman and those habits die hard when you're teaching guys how to flare their first jet.

Hate me.
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I could never hate you. [emoji8]

And yes, I agree that my bedside manner was uncharacteristically rough. His usage of the term "ready to pounce" rubbed me the wrong way.

Any of you fellas that think your fellow pilots can kill you quick in a jet would wet yourself if you saw how quickly things can go sour in a Jetstream, a Metro, a Beech 1900 ... or really any other turboprop without an autopilot.

I stand by what I said. Don't like how things are going? Say go around. At least then if you're taking the controls you're doing it on a trajectory that takes you away from the earth. But for pete's sake, don't wrestle control away from the FO and then attempt to salvage a landing out of it.

And if you DO take the controls, a talk with pro standards should follow because either you're too jumpy, or they need re-training.

Oh, and if they jack around on guard. Feel free to rescind their flying privileges for the remainder of the trip. I've got your back.[emoji57]


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