GoJet Incident

[BobDDuck]

Specifically what type of treatment Sanjay has had to put up with. What turns a tool into a tool?
If I was a captain, and some dead header flipped me off, I would probably not feel like giving him a ride. Maybe he felt the same way about the badge holder and stickers.

He was a tool long before he went to GoJet. Ask any old time TSA guy and they will have plenty of stories about this guy. Also, you as Captain really have no say if a deadheader gets on the plane or not, unless you can spin it into a safety concern. It's hard enough to justify denying a jumpseater (although it's pretty easy to actually do it) but you have almost no say as to who gets into the passenger cabin.

Agreed, but isn't it also true that every pilot who accepts employment at Colgan post-acquisition is guilty of the same thing? How's that any different? ... Those pilots have to know they're going to be whipsawed against Pinnacle at some point, and if they don't realize that, they haven't done their homework.

I agree to some extent with that. The rates the Q is being flown for is awful. Just because it's got props on it, it still seats more then the biggest airplane I fly and it pays about 1/3 less then my pay for the smallest plane I fly. HOWEVER... as of yet, CJ hasn't been directly whipsawed against 9E. Also, (although I do feel the Q is really a jet) as of yet, there has been no talk of CJ expanding into jet operations. The thing with GoJets is that they were a whipsaw from day one. CJ isn't technically a whipsaw yet, and while you are right in thinking it probably is only a matter of time you can't base a judgment off of something that may happen in the future (especially when comparing it to something that was happening from day one).

 

[Gonzo]

Agreed, but isn't it also true that every pilot who accepts employment at Colgan post-acquisition is guilty of the same thing? How's that any different? It's like the Freedom A-list in reverse, kinda. Those pilots have to know they're going to be whipsawed against Pinnacle at some point, and if they don't realize that, they haven't done their homework. Guilt by ignorance is still guilt.

I hate to say it but I agree with you.:yeahthat:

 

[v1valarob]

Agreed, but isn't it also true that every pilot who accepts employment at Colgan post-acquisition is guilty of the same thing? How's that any different? It's like the Freedom A-list in reverse, kinda. Those pilots have to know they're going to be whipsawed against Pinnacle at some point, and if they don't realize that, they haven't done their homework. Guilt by ignorance is still guilt.

As a pilot who is interviewing with Colgan on Wednesday I also understand that Pinnacle pilots won their grievance with Pinnacle buying up Colgan and that the at some point in the future the lists will be combined and we will be a united family.

I don't see how its possible for Pinnacle to be whipsawed anymore by Colgan after the ruling.

-Rob

 

[BajtheJino]

I'd recommend you do a little bit of reading on the GoJet v. TSA fiasco before you comment further because it's obvious you don't know what went on.

Thank you for looking down at me and gracing me with this meaninglessness. I asked a question. Thought that was the point of this forum. So people that don't know can educate themselves by getting it straight from people that do know.

 

[kellwolf]

As a pilot who is interviewing with Colgan on Wednesday I also understand that Pinnacle pilots won their grievance with Pinnacle buying up Colgan and that the at some point in the future the lists will be combined and we will be a united family.

I don't see how its possible for Pinnacle to be whipsawed anymore by Colgan after the ruling.

-Rob

Yeah, we thought that, too. Seems the arbitrator has had a change of heart (or something else) and decided that Pinnacle Holdings is NOT liable. MEC is currently trying to figure out WTF happened to make him more or less reverse his previous ruling almost 180 degrees. So, as of right now, the whipsaw is BACK ON if they want to try it.

As for what aloft said, sadly, I can almost agree with that. Ethan's right that they aren't currently being used, but the potential is there....again.

 

[v1valarob]

Yeah, we thought that, too. Seems the arbitrator has had a change of heart (or something else) and decided that Pinnacle Holdings is NOT liable. MEC is currently trying to figure out WTF happened to make him more or less reverse his previous ruling almost 180 degrees. So, as of right now, the whipsaw is BACK ON if they want to try it.

As for what aloft said, sadly, I can almost agree with that. Ethan's right that they aren't currently being used, but the potential is there....again.

When did this happen? How can an arbitrator just change their decision?

-Rob

 

[Foxcow]

Every GJ crew I've ever seen on a TSA flight has been treated with courtesy. They are not welcomed with open arms by any means but are always treated with respect.

On another note, I always check in up front even if I'm DH'ing on GJS. It's a common courtesy I think...

Respect is not a word I would use there.

The overwhelming majority of us use Mummy's policy of "If you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all." We ignore them since we are not allowed to kick them off.

What that captain and flight attendant did was extremely unprofessional.

 

[kellwolf]

When did this happen? How can an arbitrator just change their decision?

-Rob

I haven't a clue. Blastmail came out today. Here it is:

2. Colgan Scope Grievance



The arbitrator has issued a new interpretation of his ruling in which he found Pinnacle Airlines in violation of the collective bargaining agreement with ALPA and found that Pinnacle Airlines Corp. was in effect, operating as an alter ego of Pinnacle Airlines Inc. in regards to the acquisition of Colgan Air.



Unfortunately, the arbitrator’s new interpretation initially appears to absolve Pinnacle Airlines Corp. of liability in regards to the Colgan Scope Grievance.



Your MEC is very disappointed with this latest development. We believe that this new interpretation contains many inconsistencies. ALPA attorneys have sent the arbitrator a letter requesting clarification of this new interpretation. This new interpretation is by no means final and your MEC continues to pursue all means necessary to reach a favorable outcome. We will notify you as soon as there are any developments.

 

[Cruise]

I haven't a clue. Blastmail came out today. Here it is:

WTFO?????

Hmmmm, did PNCL corp line the arbitrator's pockets (purely speculative, of course)? It's a very convenient reversal of fortunes for the company.

This makes the new ALPA drive all that much more important!

 

[jtrain609]

Thank you for looking down at me and gracing me with this meaninglessness. I asked a question. Thought that was the point of this forum. So people that don't know can educate themselves by getting it straight from people that do know.

So what you're trying to say, in a lot of words, is that...

-You haven't done your research
-You want somebody else to do it for you
-You are making statements that are untrue, and when somebody corrects you, you whine?

Good.

You asked no question from what I saw, you made statements about how people bag on Colgan and GoJets for being non union, when that is not in fact the issue. GoJets IS union.

GoJets was created to force the TSA pilot group to either fly bigger airplanes for less money, or if they wouldn't do that, to sidestep their union and hire people to fly bigger airplanes for less money under the same holding certificate. That's normally called union busting, and illegal. They were able to get it past a judge somehow.

 

[BajtheJino]

So what you're trying to say, in a lot of words, is that...

-You haven't done your research
-You want somebody else to do it for you
-You are making statements that are untrue, and when somebody corrects you, you whine?

Good.

Don't really need to do research.
No. Just asked a question.
Not whining. It's just that I can do without the sarcasm and insolent tone from you that drips from most of your posts.

 

[aloft]

The thing with GoJets is that they were a whipsaw from day one.

I haven't seen a shred of evidence to support your assertion. Please provide details as to how and when G7 was whipsawed against TSA.

 

[derg]

Aloft, for the love of David Hasselhoff, I'm afraid you're getting in over your head on the subject.

Check out the "Hot Topics" section, or start a new thread on why GoJets is deleterious to the pilot profession.

Final warning. I've already had a cocktail so consider request for reprieve denied in advance.

 

[fly8slep]

GoJets was created to force the TSA pilot group to either fly bigger airplanes for less money, or if they wouldn't do that, to sidestep their union and hire people to fly bigger airplanes for less money under the same holding certificate. That's normally called union busting, and illegal. They were able to get it past a judge somehow.

No actually Gojet was created because AA wouldn't allow TSA to fly 70 seaters, it's a different certificate and airline. It wasn't to force pilots to fly for lower wages. They offered TSA guys to fly for GJ. Anyways it doesn't matter now, the fact is GJ is union they have 70 seat pay, they just got a new contract earlier this year while TSA is still operating under the old contract. So it's kind of ironic that people are saying GJ undermined and lowered industry standards, if there are any.

I'm relatively new to TSA but so far I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe that there is serious hatred toward GJ pilots like I have heard prior to joining TSA. We have them in and out of our airplanes all the time and vice versa, I talk to them in STL/ORD and they seem happy.

 

[Foxcow]

No actually Gojet was created because AA wouldn't allow TSA to fly 70 seaters, it's a different certificate and airline. It wasn't to force pilots to fly for lower wages. They offered TSA guys to fly for GJ. Anyways it doesn't matter now, the fact is GJ is union they have 70 seat pay, they just got a new contract earlier this year while TSA is still operating under the old contract. So it's kind of ironic that people are saying GJ undermined and lowered industry standards, if there are any.

I'm relatively new to TSA but so far I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe that there is serious hatred toward GJ pilots like I have heard prior to joining TSA. We have them in and out of our airplanes all the time and vice versa, I talk to them in STL/ORD and they seem happy.

The reason we rejected the flying is because they wanted us to do it for less than we were flying the 145 for. The LOA was ridiculous. There is controversy because of the people that went over there in hopes of getting ahead in seniority and a fast upgrade. To this day, they achieved neither. Just remember, the company hired people over there at TSA's expense (we furloughed 60 people. TSA financed that whole operation and mostly likely continues to do so to this day judging from their size and performance.

This is not meant to be mean but once you have been on property a little longer, you will start to understand the management/labor relationship and realize why we are still working under our expired contract. There are a lot of factors at work.

Also, the only reason we have them in and out of airplane is because we aren't allowed to deny them. In the beginning, we were denying them but they would tattle to the holding company and we would get in trouble. They cannot deny us either since we are part of the same happy family/company.

 

[joliet]

Why can we not allowed our emotions to be exposed?

These are serious issues that must be address and discussed, unfortunately these issues are not going to be discussed in a civilized maner because of the overall negative economic standing that it puts people and their families.

Let's be real about it instead of trying to tell people to pipe down and calm down. We should be angry, pissed off, and ready to fight for what we believe in.

/agree

 

[ljg]

A lot of urine and vinegar so far (3 pages worth) for a stupid sticker. Sanjay is an unprofessional; what else does there really need to be said about it? I agree from the uneducated freight side it looks stupid.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

Why can we not allowed our emotions to be exposed?

These are serious issues that must be address and discussed, unfortunately these issues are not going to be discussed in a civilized maner because of the overall negative economic standing that it puts people and their families.

Let's be real about it instead of trying to tell people to pipe down and calm down. We should be angry, pissed off, and ready to fight for what we believe in.

The reason we can't allow our emotions to be exposed is the same reason when you were a CFI you said "right rudder, right rudder" and not "WTF ARE YOU DOING YOU IDIOT...THIS IS THE 700TH TIME I'VE TOLD YOU THIS...WHY DON'T YOU JUST GET IT!?!?!"

 

[pipepatrol]

Are you sure "Sanjay" was his real name??? That sounds kind of made up, if you ask me.

I know a lot of times when I'm in a sticky situation, I'll make up a name on the fly just so they wont be able to track me down...

 

[TheAlchemist]

Are you sure "Sanjay" was his real name??? That sounds kind of made up, if you ask me.

I know a lot of times when I'm in a sticky situation, I'll make up a name on the fly just so they wont be able to track me down...

Yup Sanjay is his REAL name. His well known around here.

No actually Gojet was created because AA wouldn't allow TSA to fly 70 seaters, it's a different certificate and airline. It wasn't to force pilots to fly for lower wages. They offered TSA guys to fly for GJ. Anyways it doesn't matter now, the fact is GJ is union they have 70 seat pay, they just got a new contract earlier this year while TSA is still operating under the old contract. So it's kind of ironic that people are saying GJ undermined and lowered industry standards, if there are any.

I'm relatively new to TSA but so far I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe that there is serious hatred toward GJ pilots like I have heard prior to joining TSA. We have them in and out of our airplanes all the time and vice versa, I talk to them in STL/ORD and they seem happy.

Did you actually believe what training depto (SW) told you?