Going to regional for flow or CPP?

A

Alex Caffrey

Well-Known Member
Trying to get some insight from others on this. I’m an instructor that is getting ready to apply for the regionals. I recently just got my 4 year degree from an aviation university. I understand that the majors will see a large number of retirements within the next 10 years. I am really hoping to go to United, Delta, or American so I’m trying to play my cards right. Is it worth going to a regional just for the flow or for the CPP? In other words is it really going to matter assuming I keep my record clean and get adequate 121 experience?
 
Think of the flow as a back pocket insurance policy in case nothing comes along before hand.

But in all honesty, choose the regional that either keeps you in base or has the shortest commute. You’re goals should be to get your 121 experience and then hustle to move up to the next level.

I’m at PSA and my goal is to get hired before I flow. Hopefully to either AA, Delta or SWA. The flow is more of a back up plan for me. We’ll see what happens!
 
If I was just starting now I would go with the flow, it's what I did (however it didn't work in the end) but if you're just starting you have nothing to lose by going with the one that offers a flow.
 
I'd go to a regional with a genuine flow (not the United CPP or another guaranteed interview program). Yes, hopefully you will be able to get hired at the majors before flowing, but there's a good chance you may not. There are plenty of regional lifers and I doubt many of them planned to be lifers at the start or their career. I have flow with captains who have been at my regional for years and have many thousands of hours of TPIC and can't get a call. So it would probably be a good idea to go to one of the American wholly-owned regionals so you'll have the flow in case you can't get hired outside of the flow. Another good reason to go to a Regional with a flow is that because American hires so many pilots through the flow, that makes it even harder to get hired outside of the flow.

As for the United CPP that a few regionals have, keep in mind that it is not a true flow, just a guaranteed Hogan take. I work at one of the regionals that has it and management and United keep the success rate secret, but as far as I can tell less than a quarter of our pilot group has successfully gotten into the CPP. All the regionals that have it are decidedly lower-tier regionals, or appear to be headed the way of Comair, or both.
 
BigZ said:
Flow screeches to a halt = AA isn't hiring. And if the legacy with the most retirements isn't hiring, we've got a problem all around, flow or not.
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What if the flow starts severely outpacing the regional hiring? Do you think AA will cannibalize its regionals in the name of flow?
 
word302 said:
What if the flow starts severely outpacing the regional hiring? Do you think AA will cannibalize its regionals in the name of flow?
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That's right about where we get a pay raise.

But on a serious note - flow is great for creating movement. In a year I went from #23XX to #18XX out of 24XX. More than 2/3 of that was flow. Only about 200 lifers on top of the list. How does that compare to other shops?
 
20% at the junior end of the list in a year is probably pretty average would be my guess. I'm at 35% system wide at OO with an almost 5000 pilot list after 4 years and 8 months. Obviously moving slower now than those first couple years. Of course it helps that the list has grown by over 1700 pilots since I started, but I've moved almost 1500 spots in that time. Movement is pretty crazy everywhere.
 
I’m 8xx out of 19xx pilots at PSA. Was hired near the beginning of the wave back in Jan 2017. I started at number 11xx. Probably 150-200 lifers at PSA. Mostly old ComAir guys working the sims in CVG and CLT.
 
word302 said:
So what happens when the economy tanks and the flow screeches to a halt?
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Then you end up sol. The regional I was with had a flow but Continental then sold them off to help fund their pensions, so no flow for me. Just because they have a flow isn't an absolute guarantee otherwise I would be at United (Continental) now. But if I was just starting out again it would be worth it to go to an airline that has a flow, not a ccp as @Yakob said. I know quite a few good pilots who never made it past/through the ccp. Nothing is guaranteed in life esp in aviation. There is no absolute guarantee that they would flow to AA if they went to one of the wholly-owned, but imo its worth a try.
 
BigZ said:
That's right about where we get a pay raise.

But on a serious note - flow is great for creating movement. In a year I went from #23XX to #18XX out of 24XX. More than 2/3 of that was flow. Only about 200 lifers on top of the list. How does that compare to other shops?
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I'm currently 32XX out of 48XX after 1 year and 10 months at OO. I think the list has grown by 3-400 pilots since I've been here.
 
CUTigerPilot said:
Think of the flow as a back pocket insurance policy in case nothing comes along before hand.

But in all honesty, choose the regional that either keeps you in base or has the shortest commute. You’re goals should be to get your 121 experience and then hustle to move up to the next level.

I’m at PSA and my goal is to get hired before I flow. Hopefully to either AA, Delta or SWA. The flow is more of a back up plan for me. We’ll see what happens!
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The thread could have been closed after this post.
 
Zidac said:
ExpressJet is neither low tier nor dying.
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Bro I've got bad news for you, ExpressJet has been dead for years. It's a zombie airline.

I was a July 2007 hire on the ERJ, furloughed for 2.5 years and then came back. I bailed to another regional to get some PIC time, but if I hadn't, it would have taken 10.5 years to upgrade.

If I'd passed the CPP, I'd be nowhere near flowing. They've got 2006 hires going through right now.
 
Go the flow airlines.... suck it up with commuting and living out of base. I went to a regional and lived in base, then moved out to be closer to family, so I’m commuting anyway (and that fact alone is motivating me to leave the regionals). I enjoyed living in base, but had to move out for personal reasons. I’m actually more motivated than ever to leave because my QOL is 5 out of 10 whereas beforehand I was happy to be bidding within 20% in base.

It’s better to have a flow because you never know whether bad luck will strike and then you won’t be competitive enough to be hired. I am lucky to have only one primary training failure in my career, but I fly with pilots having 5 - 6 primary busts because their alma mater had an agenda against students (I think that school went under btw), or worse yet they have a 121 MV or LOE failure and it only takes one strike, you’re a regional lifer without a flow. You never know, so take an insurance policy and get the flow, hopefully you won’t need it.
 
United might be working on their own version of the same, but things will happen at a legacy rate. I.e. a couple of years between decision and implementation.
 
jtrain609 said:
Bro I've got bad news for you, ExpressJet has been dead for years. It's a zombie airline.

I was a July 2007 hire on the ERJ, furloughed for 2.5 years and then came back. I bailed to another regional to get some PIC time, but if I hadn't, it would have taken 10.5 years to upgrade.

If I'd passed the CPP, I'd be nowhere near flowing. They've got 2006 hires going through right now.
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Yeah, you’re wrong. A July 2007 would have gone to United already. The 2011’s are getting class dates now.
 
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