Going rate for independent CFI?

[Blackhawk]

How do you manage to get 5-6 billable hours per day with 1-2 students per day? That seems like some really long lessons to me.

I believe in teaching people ground- not just hopping in an airplane and flying. So figure 1 hour of ground and reviewing weather (weather itself usually takes a while);1-1.5 of flying; .5 to debrief. That's a 2.5-3 hour block per person. Really, that is not much time. Personally, I don't see how a CFI can plan on less than 3 hours per person, unless someone else is taking care of the ground instruction.

 

[kgflyboy]

I believe in teaching people ground- not just hopping in an airplane and flying. So figure 1 hour of ground and reviewing weather (weather itself usually takes a while);1-1.5 of flying; .5 to debrief. That's a 2.5-3 hour block per person. Really, that is not much time.

I agree with giving thorough lessons. That's just much longer than what I was use to, so it seemed odd. I guess it all depends on the students' knowledge level and how often they are studying/flying.

 

[Blackhawk]

I agree with giving thorough lessons. That's just much longer than what I was use to, so it seemed odd. I guess it all depends on the students' knowledge level and how often they are studying/flying.

One hour of ground seems to be the minimum. Some subjects, such as stalls/spins, aerodynamics, seem to take longer. Just going over weather each lesson (I usually start to introduce weather by lesson 3 or 4), takes about 20-30 minutes- helping them translate the METAR/TAFs/FA, lifted index charts, other charts; what to look for; unusual weather that day in the country. However they can usually do this on their own after a while.
Then we need to review what we are doing that day; new maneuvers, or problem areas they had before that we need to work on. I usually try to get students out of the training area quickly, go to different airports. So we need to review the different airport, how to get there. If they are at the point where they can pre-flight on their own, I at least need to do a quick walk around (check the tanks, oil, anything else they might have missed).
Then after flying, we debrief. What went well, what they need to work on. This might be quick, or might take a good 30 minutes. Then cover what we will do next lesson- for ground and flight.
I have not even gotten into questions they might have. I normally assign extra material outside the syllabus (such as AOPA ASF courses, ASF quizzes, FAA Safety courses, written test questions associated with the ground material). Normally these bring up questions... especially the written questions. This also assumes they are prepared and did the assignments.

 

[slushie]

So, Blackhawk, WHERE do you do ground as an independent CFI?

 

[Blackhawk]

So, Blackhawk, WHERE do you do ground as an independent CFI?

FBO. Currently they let us teach there without charge, and they make up the overhead in aircraft rental fees. They even let me teach spins, tail wheel and upset recovery there in my airplane (although I do pay for hanger space). Not sure how much longer that will last. Also, I own the PCATD and give them a cut of the rental on that.

 

[kgflyboy]

I averaged about 20 minutes of ground before my lessons and 10 after for a total of 30 minutes billed. Guess I just got lucky... or unlucky. Depends how you look at it.

 

[slushie]

FBO. Currently they let us teach there without charge, and they make up the overhead in aircraft rental fees. They even let me teach spins, tail wheel and upset recovery there in my airplane (although I do pay for hanger space). Not sure how much longer that will last. Also, I own the PCATD and give them a cut of the rental on that.

Yeah that isn't going to happen here. The county would probably charge and arm and two legs to use a room in the terminal. They despise G.A.

I've got a pretty good set up to do it for a school, but this may be an option later outside of vegas.

 

[Blackhawk]

I averaged about 20 minutes of ground before my lessons and 10 after for a total of 30 minutes billed. Guess I just got lucky... or unlucky. Depends how you look at it.

If you talk to one of the great, well known instructors, or read what they write- Kershner (can't really talk to him any more), Machado, etc- they all talk and write about instructors spending as much time on ground instruction as they do teaching in the air. There is so much more to flying than just wiggling sticks, and it is very tough to pass this on in a noisy, hot cockpit.
I could not imagine just throwing a tail wheel student into the airplane without spending some good ground on what we were doing and what to expect. 20 minutes would not really cut it.
It was the same in the military. When I tought initial RW pilots, the students always prefered the IPs who would take the time to teach on the ground, and not just run out, jump in and fly.
When I go for aerobatics instruction, we probably spend more time briefing the flight, discussing the maneuvers, and then debriefing what I messed up when finished, than we actually do flying. I pay for that time, and would consider it a waste of time if someone just tried to take me up and put me through the maneuvers.

 

[Blackhawk]

Yeah that isn't going to happen here. The county would probably charge and arm and two legs to use a room in the terminal. They despise G.A.

I've got a pretty good set up to do it for a school, but this may be an option later outside of vegas.

I'm sure when the current FBO owners sell this place things will change. The CFIs will probably have to pay some kind of overhead fee to use the rooms and weather planning area, if we are even welcome. I could see the airplanes being sold- not alot of money in airplane rentals. I know other FBOs don't like having CFIs around- they just want rich airplane owners. Kind of like eating the seed corn. Without CFIs, there won't be any rich airplane owners.