Glider

Holocene

Well-Known Member
Anyone gotten involved with gliders for cheap flight time?

How long is a typical glider flight capable of lasting assuming reasonable convective activity?
 
Training isn't as cheap as they say, but it is rewarding and will improve your skills.

That's the thing, it's not like I can get "checked out" in a glider in an hour. It may rent for only $30hr, but adding instruction and tow costs would exceed the cost of simply renting a 152.
 
Well, since you asked....
I started out in gliders. The day I passed my private check ride the boss asked me to get my commercial and come work for them giving sight-seeing rides. Took up my first paying ride 30 min. after passing the commercial check ride. Our company also gives acrobatic rides, so I got free acro training and started giving those rides too. Paid for all my training costs in no time.
After five years of doing this part time, got my power ratings. Used 150 glider hours towards the commercial power rating. That right there saves, what, 15~20K in rental fees?
Because of all the contacts I made flying gliders, I found a cheap 152 for training and a good friend CFI taught me at a discount. All the glider time made the flying part of the power ratings easy.

In short, starting in gliders was the best thing I ever did. Saved me a ton of money, gave me excellent stick and rudder skills and the connections I made there got me into the Pt. 135 cargo outfit I'm now flying at.

Soaring is some of the purest and most transcendental flying you will ever do. (Real pilots don't need engine's!)

And, when you have to do the dreaded power-off accuracy landings on your check rides, you'll be laughing.:laff:

On a more serious note, I firmly believe that many of the deaths/accidents caused by engine failures on take offs, etc., could be avoided if the pilots had some glider training.
 
Anyone gotten involved with gliders for cheap flight time?

How long is a typical glider flight capable of lasting assuming reasonable convective activity?

A glider is capable of staying in the air much longer than you are. The endurance record is over 50 years old (it was for 50+ hours). They stopped endurance competitions because it was deemed too dangerous - too easy to fall asleep.

Even if the air isn't rising fast enough for you to climb, you can usually stay up for quite some time in a weak thermal. Some days are better than others. Like anything, you'll get better at it the more you do it.

The are both clubs and commercial operations. Obviously, a club is quite a bit cheaper. Mine charges $40/month, but the gliders are free. Tows are $1 per 100 feet here. If you take out the pattern tows I've been doing, it has been running me about $20/hour in gliders.

The training is not expensive. Assuming you already have 200 hours in fixed wing aircraft, you can get a commercial glider certificate after 20 flights PIC (solo). You can do these as pattern tows, where the glider is towed to downwind and released. 10 flights with a CFI-G should be enough for you to solo. It is still the cheapest commercial category rating you are going to get. A rotorcraft commercial add-on will probably run you $40,000.

Keep in mind, once you have the commercial certificate, you can do glider rides paying customers. Thus, you are now building time for free (or getting paid something)

I'm planning to get my CFI-G now (I have about 200 hours fixed wing), and log the next 50 as dual given instructing in gliders. Then do my Commercial ASEL. The money I make instructing (~$20/hour) will have just about covered the cost of getting the CFI-G. And it gets me the 50 hours I needed anyway for "free."

I imagine my airplane CFI will be easier after already giving dual instruction for a while too.

If you just care about logging cheap time, I'm sure wherever you are, once you get some training in gliders, they will be happy to let you fly the towplane.
 
That's the thing, it's not like I can get "checked out" in a glider in an hour. It may rent for only $30hr, but adding instruction and tow costs would exceed the cost of simply renting a 152.

You can just get "checked out." Since you already have a pilot certificate, a logbook endorsement would be all you need to fly PIC. This should take less than 10 flights (2 or 3 days). That's about the same as an A/C checkout (complex/hp/tailwheel/etc)
 
You can just get "checked out." Since you already have a pilot certificate, a logbook endorsement would be all you need to fly PIC. This should take less than 10 flights (2 or 3 days). That's about the same as an A/C checkout (complex/hp/tailwheel/etc)

Awesome, I will keep that in mind. Just looking to build 50hrs or so.

In fact, in addition to gliders, I might look into getting a tailwheel endorsement as well. Since I need these hours for the comm certificate, I might as well diversify the logbook a bit instead of just flying a 150 around aimlessly.
 
You can just get "checked out." Since you already have a pilot certificate, a logbook endorsement would be all you need to fly PIC. This should take less than 10 flights (2 or 3 days). That's about the same as an A/C checkout (complex/hp/tailwheel/etc)

No, it's not the same as an endorsement. A glider is a different category than airplane, so technically it's not an add-on rating, but that's the commonly used term to describe the OP's situation.

You'll need enough dual to fly solo as a student glider pilot, then you'll need to make the required number of solo (PIC) flights for whatever level of certificate you want: The sport add-on only requires 3 solo flights for a total of an hour, a private add-on requires 10 solo flights and a commercial add-on requires 20 solo flights. After this, you'll need a checkride with a DPE (for commercial or private) or a different CFI-G (for sport).

61.129
(f) For a glider rating. A person who applies for a commercial pilot certificate with a glider category rating must log at least—
(1) 25 hours of flight time as a pilot in a glider and that flight time must include at least 100 flights in a glider as pilot in command, including at least—
(i) 3 hours of flight training in a glider or 10 training flights in a glider with an authorized instructor on the areas of operation listed in §61.127(b)(6) of this part, including at least 3 training flights in a glider with an authorized instructor in preparation for the practical test within the 60-day period preceding the date of the test; and
(ii) 2 hours of solo flight that include not less than 10 solo flights in a glider on the areas of operation listed in §61.127(b)(6) of this part; or
(2) 200 hours of flight time as a pilot in heavier-than-air aircraft and at least 20 flights in a glider as pilot in command, including at least—
(i) 3 hours of flight training in a glider or 10 training flights in a glider with an authorized instructor on the areas of operation listed in §61.127(b)(6) of this part including at least 3 training flights in a glider with an authorized instructor in preparation for the practical test within the 60-day period preceding the date of the test; and
(ii) 5 solo flights in a glider on the areas of operation listed in §61.127(b)(6) of this part.
 
How did I miss this one.

It is awesome for total time building. For a $30 tow (in my case, free for being a ground guy) I can stay up for 5 or 6 hours and have a hell of a lot of fun covering up to 225 miles in northern Illinois.

I will also echo everything that gliderboy has said.

Getting paid $5 a flight to give sightseeing glider rides is an ok way to get all of the flight time.

about 215 of my 412TT is in gliders, so for my commercial airplane, i only need 100 in airplanes, the other 150 can be in gliders.

It really wasn't part of my plan (soaring is pure fun for me) but it has helped in the time building area.
 
No, it's not the same as an endorsement. A glider is a different category than airplane, so technically it's not an add-on rating, but that's the commonly used term to describe the OP's situation.

I think he was more concerned with logging PIC time as soon as possible, in which case, the PIC category endorsement in his logbook would be the only thing that is strictly necessary. (Along with an aerotow endorsement).

You don't need to be in too much of a hurry to get the glider certificate, since you will be able to solo/PIC as soon as you get that endorsement. All the license would allow: logging dual recieved PIC and carrying passengers
 
I think he was more concerned with logging PIC time as soon as possible, in which case, the PIC category endorsement in his logbook would be the only thing that is strictly necessary. (Along with an aerotow endorsement).

You don't need to be in too much of a hurry to get the glider certificate, since you will be able to solo/PIC as soon as you get that endorsement. All the license would allow: logging dual recieved PIC and carrying passengers

I thought maybe that's where you were heading wth your post, but it was a bit misleading when you compared it to a complex endorsement.

In the FWIW category, there's more to life than flying just to log PIC time. If you're going to get enough training to get a solo endorsement, then you have enough to take a check ride. (My CFI didn't fly with me again between signing me off for my solo and me taking a check ride 2 days later except for a 15 minute flight to check me out in a new M&M.) Why wouldn't you want to add a rating so you can share the experience with friends, fly different M&M gliders and be free of your CFI's strings? As a CFI, I'd be a little leary of someone who showed up and told me they didn't want to train for a rating, but just wanted a solo endorsement. I'm not saying I wouldn't give it to them, but I would make me pause. In my case, my CFI's liability was 2 days while flew on his solo endorsement. After that, I flew on my own ticket.

BTW, you don't need an aero tow endorsement. All you need is this endorsement from AC 61-61D:

35. To act as PIC of an aircraft in solo operations when the pilot who does not hold an appropriate category/class rating: § 61.31(d)(3)
I certify that (First name, MI, Last name) has received the training as required by § 61.31(d)(3) to serve as a PIC in a (category and class of aircraft). I have determined that he/she is prepared to serve as PIC in that (make and model of aircraft).

S/S [date] J.J. Jones 987654321CFI Exp. 12-31-00


http://forums.jetcareers.com/cfi-corner/40828-cfi-endorsements.html
 
Why wouldn't you want to add a rating so you can share the experience with friends, fly different M&M gliders and be free of your CFI's strings? As a CFI, I'd be a little leary of someone who showed up and told me they didn't want to train for a rating, but just wanted a solo endorsement. I'm not saying I wouldn't give it to them, but I would make me pause. In my case, my CFI's liability was 2 days while flew on his solo endorsement. After that, I flew on my own ticket.

BTW, you don't need an aero tow endorsement. All you need is this endorsement from AC 61-61D:



http://forums.jetcareers.com/cfi-corner/40828-cfi-endorsements.html

Not correct - From another AC - 61-65E:

31.b Pilots who desire to use aerotow procedures must have satisfactorily accomplished ground and flight training on aerotow procedures and operations. The pilot must have received and an endorsement from a CFI-Glider instructor who certifies, in the pilot's logbook, that the pilot has been found proficient in aerotow procedures and operations.

(you can tell I'm getting ready for my CFI checkrides, I can sing chapter and verse from the FARs, AIM, and AC's)

Strangely enough, my CFI-G seems in no hurry to schedule my commercial checkride. I personally would like it out of the way.
 
I realize that D had been superseded. That explains why I don't have the aero tow endorsement in my logbook.
 
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