glider vs plane...

Kristie

Mama Bear....
Staff member
so we had an accident outside of town today - a glider vs a plane...

here is the article and an excerpt: [ QUOTE ]
Keith Coulliette, 30, an employee of Turf Soaring School and the son of school founder Roy Coulliette, was pulling the glider out of a series of acrobatic loops about 1:15 p.m. Sunday when he collided with the single-engine fixed-wing plane, cutting off the plane's wing, witnesses said.


[/ QUOTE ] now... wouldn't there be some sort of aerobatic airspace where a plane is not supposed to go into? if that's the case... then it is the other plane (piper cub) at fault right? for being in their airspace while they were performing acrobatics???
 

mastermags

Well-Known Member *giggity*
Yes, if they were in designated airspace the plane would be at fault. Gliders as a rule have the right of way over powered aircraft anyway.
 

Alchemy

Well-Known Member
It's the responsibility of the pilot performing the aerobatics to ensure the area is clear of traffic before and during the maneuver. It's the responsibility of all pilots to see and avoid other traffic when weather conditions permit. Therefore you could find both pilots at fault, or just say it was a freak accident and no one's fault. Gliders do have the right of way over powered aircraft, however.

There is no special airspace for aerobatic maneuvers, except for temporary flight restrictions over airports where airshows are occuring and military operations areas. Before you enter a maneuver you are supposed to preform "clearing turns". During these, you turn 180 degrees, constantly scanning for traffic and other obstructions.

Tragic accident, condolences to the families.
 

aloft

New Member
Sometimes they're established by NOTAM, but mostly not. You're just supposed to see & avoid, and it sounds like the glider pilot didn't do his clearing turns very thoroughly.
 

E_Dawg

Moderator
Any time two airplanes hit there are at least two pilots at fault no matter who had the right of way.

Also, there are rules about where you can do aerobatics (1500'AGL... not over congested areas, over controlled airports, etc.) but there is nothing that restricts other pilots from entering the area.

And usually there is nothing that even warns other pilots that aerobatics are taking place.
 

I_Money

Moderator
I flew in England were there is a lot of glider activity, and the thing that caught me was how hard they are to see. They really do blend into the sky, and they have no lights (creates too much drag they say). This is the reason I like to avoid places that gliders operate out of.

A while ago a glider hit an AF Airbus 320 - not sure the whole story, but I believe nothing much happened to the airliner.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
There's no formal airspace over the area where the accident occurred. I'm pretty familiar with the area being the area I transition to get to the northern low-level routes, and Pleasant Valley is your typical uncontrolled field. There's a lot of flight training that goes on up there and over Lake Pleasant to the north (PanAm, Westwind, and others), though there's no "aerobatic box" such as the one north of DVT. Seems the glider was doing acro over the field for the ground observers, and the Cub took off from the same field. Tragic.
 

pilot602

If specified, this will replace the title that
It was only a matter of time before something like this happened in the NW Practice area. That place is a friggin' zoo. I'm actually surprised this kind of thing doesn't happen more often out there.

Acro boxes are usually "non-official" areas that everyone knows to kind of avoid/watch out for. The "worst" offenders in the valley are the guys out of "Fighter Combat International" They'll use the entire SE practice area but only know one landmark - Rittenhouse. It drives me nuts to see these guys all over the sky in a "practice area" and then the only thing they can/do reference is the old abandoned airstrip. I've actually heard "I'm 12 mile SE of Rittenhouse" which would be near Florence!

But whatyagunnado?
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]
It was only a matter of time before something like this happened in the NW Practice area. That place is a friggin' zoo. I'm actually surprised this kind of thing doesn't happen more often out there.

Acro boxes are usually "non-official" areas that everyone knows to kind of avoid/watch out for. The "worst" offenders in the valley are the guys out of "Fighter Combat International" They'll use the entire SE practice area but only know one landmark - Rittenhouse. It drives me nuts to see these guys all over the sky in a "practice area" and then the only thing they can/do reference is the old abandoned airstrip. I've actually heard "I'm 12 mile SE of Rittenhouse" which would be near Florence!

But whatyagunnado?

[/ QUOTE ]

Rittenhouse is now an Army Heliport for the NG now right?
 

pilot602

If specified, this will replace the title that
I 've heard Boeing runs Apaches down the canal to do some shakedown work at Rittenhouse but in the 2 1/2 years I've been here I've yet to see any helos of anykind around the palce. I do see a lot of RC flyers and the occasinal "power-sail" out there, though.
 

hammer

New Member
I've never been in a glider but since you have no engine, isn't it really quiet and shouldn't you be able to hear the airplane engine from a good distance?
 

aloft

New Member
[ QUOTE ]
I've never been in a glider but since you have no engine, isn't it really quiet and shouldn't you be able to hear the airplane engine from a good distance?

[/ QUOTE ]There's wind noise, esp. at the speeds necessary for aerobatics, and you're in an enclosed cockpit, so I'd be very surprised if you could hear an SE piston aircraft beyond 100 ft away.
 

Merlin

Well-Known Member
There's plenty of wind noise in a glider. I've never flown one close enough to a powered plane to know how close you have to be to hear the engine
but I would imagine that it's pretty darn close. I certainly wouldnt rely on it as warning of nearby traffic.

One other thing to note about gliders... many of them do not carry radios.
 

SteveC

Really?
Staff member
Re: reaction from the people of Scottsdale...

[ QUOTE ]
Morons.....

[/ QUOTE ]
Not strong enough... <adjectives deleted>
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
Re: reaction from the people of Scottsdale...

Of course, the whole SDL airport noise/closure issue is working its way into the upcoming mayoral elections. Read the "other activists view" section of the article regards restricting the SDL pattern and altitudes. To where, I ask? You already can't fly a south pattern there, much less make a left turnout off departure from 21, so the entire south side of the airport is already out. There's very little maneuver room left on the north side of the field. Maybe bumping the TPA up to 3000 AGL might make a difference


Then there's the issue of imposing a curfew for all aircraft. If the airport receives any sort of federal funding, can they do that in all reality?

http://www.azcentral.com/community/scottsdale/articles/0305sr-airport05Z8.html
 

Pfly

Well-Known Member
Re: reaction from the people of Scottsdale...

(Taken from above referenced article)


• Former Arizona Senate President Bob Usdane said he thinks the airport is essential to Scottsdale. He supports restricting noise, but only "within the realm of possibility," adding, "I do not believe that people who move in after the airport was there have a viable complaint."



At least one guy has the cojones to say it.
 
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