Glider Flying

Wm226

Wm226

Well-Known Member
Hi All,

Is transitioning from powered aircraft go glider flight difficult? Does it take a great amount of time to learn? I'm looking at doing an accelerated glider program (Commercial Add-On) that is supposed to take two to three days. Would it be plausible to learn the intricacies of glider flying within that period of time to pass a practical examination? Or is their advertisement of two to three days unrealistically optimistic?

Morever, do you recommend any material for glider flying? So far, I've began to study the FAA's Glider Flying Handbook; but I'm looking for other helpful material. Also, input to what a Commercial Glider Add-On "checkride"/practical examiniation is like would be helpful.


Thank You!
 
I would give you more but I am short on time now. Bob Wander - http://bobwander.com/ - has many great books available for use in soaring. You might like the "Commercial Pilot Glider Checkride...Made Easy!" book.

Ill try to post a bit more later after work
 
Wm226 said:
Hi All,

Is transitioning from powered aircraft go glider flight difficult? Does it take a great amount of time to learn? I'm looking at doing an accelerated glider program (Commercial Add-On) that is supposed to take two to three days. Would it be plausible to learn the intricacies of glider flying within that period of time to pass a practical examination? Or is their advertisement of two to three days unrealistically optimistic?

Morever, do you recommend any material for glider flying? So far, I've began to study the FAA's Glider Flying Handbook; but I'm looking for other helpful material. Also, input to what a Commercial Glider Add-On "checkride"/practical examiniation is like would be helpful.


Thank You!
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Passing the checkride after 3 days? Entirely possible and reasonable.

Being competent to fly a glider commercially? I would say you need about 50 hours or so, if you are really sharp.

There are really only six maneuvers in the glider PTS- slow flight, stalls, turn to heading, straight flight, and box the wake. The don't fly any differently than airplanes. The glider flying handbook, and the AC on traffic patterns are most of what you need to know.

Actually knowing how to fly a glider is all about how well you can identify and work lift. In my opinion, this can't really be taught. It is an art and technique that comes from intuition, judgment, experience and luck.

The main issue power pilots (especially multi turbine pilots have) is using the rudders correctly. Flying on tow will be the most difficult thing, but most figure it out after about 20 tows or so.

As I said before, the checkride will make sure you are safe. Actual soaring knowledge does not generally come from a CFI (they mostly make short, instructional flights). Fly with the guy that consistently stays up for 4 hours in weak lift when everyone else is doing sled rides, that is when soaring gets fun. And seriously, glider CFIs are smart, but they are not necessarily the authority on soaring technique.
 
Passing the checkride after 3 days? Entirely possible and reasonable.

Being competent to fly a glider commercially? I would say you need about 50 hours or so, if you are really sharp.

There are really only six maneuvers in the glider PTS- slow flight, stalls, turn to heading, straight flight, and box the wake. The don't fly any differently than airplanes. The glider flying handbook, and the AC on traffic patterns are most of what you need to know.

Actually knowing how to fly a glider is all about how well you can identify and work lift. In my opinion, this can't really be taught. It is an art and technique that comes from intuition, judgment, experience and luck.

The main issue power pilots (especially multi turbine pilots have) is using the rudders correctly. Flying on tow will be the most difficult thing, but most figure it out after about 20 tows or so.

As I said before, the checkride will make sure you are safe. Actual soaring knowledge does not generally come from a CFI (they mostly make short, instructional flights). Fly with the guy that consistently stays up for 4 hours in weak lift when everyone else is doing sled rides, that is when soaring gets fun. And seriously, glider CFIs are smart, but they are not necessarily the authority on soaring technique.
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What he said! I passed my commercial add on at the bare mins. That is 10 flights or 3 hours of dual with an instructor. And 20 solo flights as PIC. I could fly the glider, but learning to work thermals to stay up took much longer. If you just want the rating yes you can do it that fast. If you want to learn to soar though. Expect to spend at least 1 to 2 years in your current location learning. There is so much that goes into being able to do cross countries in gliders. The SSA has a great program though. If you do the badge series which is A badge, B badge, and C badge that will give you skill sets to focus on. Once you get those badges then work towards your silver badge. The silver badge is a tough one to get. It includes staying aloft for 5 hours, a vertical gain after tow release of 3281 feet, and a 31.07 mile cross country flight. There are many more badges after these to get. Each one designed to force you to push your skills a little bit farther each time. Any questions just pm me.
 
Well, at least with the commercial ticket, you have customers paying for you to learn how to thermal.

Really. With good thermals, the old farts that know what they are doing will be flying their own ships. On bad days, they won't be at the field, or will be preoccupied working on their ships. Either way, you will end up doing the sightseeing/intro flights.

Do a good job on those, BTW. They are the primary source of new glider pilots/club members, so wear your sales hat ;). Everyone will say they loved it. When they come back and write a check again, they actually liked it.
 
Thank you for your responses everyone! tlewis, looking forward to your post.

What do you guys have to say about the dangers of glider flying? Right now, as I'm studying glider material, I'm a bit concerned to the potential of off-field landings (How embarrassing?) - and - the fact that I wouldn't be able to execute go-arounds when landing (ex. What if I come in too low?). How can such dangers be mitigated? Granted, I don't plan to instruct in gliders; just plan on getting the Commercial add-on for now; then perhaps the CFI-G add-on later this summer (after I've reviewed the FOIs again). I'm hoping that by attaining my Commercial Glider certificate, I can better myself as a pilot (ex. improved stick and rudder skills, situational awareness, engine-out confidence, etc.).


Your input is appreciated.
 
Wm226 said:
Thank you for your responses everyone! tlewis, looking forward to your post.

What do you guys have to say about the dangers of glider flying? Right now, as I'm studying glider material, I'm a bit concerned to the potential of off-field landings (How embarrassing?) - and - the fact that I wouldn't be able to execute go-arounds when landing (ex. What if I come in too low?). How can such dangers be mitigated? Granted, I don't plan to instruct in gliders; just plan on getting the Commercial add-on for now; then perhaps the CFI-G add-on later this summer (after I've reviewed the FOIs again). I'm hoping that by attaining my Commercial Glider certificate, I can better myself as a pilot (ex. improved stick and rudder skills, situational awareness, engine-out confidence, etc.).


Your input is appreciated.
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I will echo everything that beagle and inverted have said above. The quick add-on should be do able in 3 days with a fast track program, and good weather, but learning how to thermal, fly cross country, and race takes a lot longer, and are all things that even the best glider pilot can always be better at. I can fly a great 200 mile flight but still kick myself for the errors that I made along the way that would have made me get it done even faster.

I have always felt much more safe in a glider than an airplane actually. Mostly I think because I never let myself get into situations that I can't make a landing from. Soaring requires a heightened sense of situational awareness compared to airplanes, and by maintaining that situational awareness, I am never in question of what is going on with the flight, and what my options are for continuing it. Off-field landings I think are somewhat "fun." Once you are over the fact that your points are trashed for the day (if in a race) then the experience of landing in a field, that no other aircraft has been before is pretty cool. You will meet a lot of interesting, and generally very helpful people in the process of working with your ground crew to retrieve from a field. A common saying in soaring is that "a glider pilot's worst fear is a farmer with a shotgun." :)

Coming in too low (short of the runway low) is rare, but does happen. It takes a pretty severe lack of judgment (in pattern planning/wind/etc) to put even a training glider (lower glide performance) in a situation that results in a landing short of the runway. The glide ratio and penetration abilities of gliders is pretty impressive, and allows for a pretty shallow approach to be flown when not using spoiler controls. You will learn all about this and how to prevent it in your training though, as that situational awareness development includes being aware of the factors related to your glide performance and eventually you getting safely to the intended runway.

Hope this helps!

(95T)
 
Where are some fast glider programs? I'd like to get my glider addon on, but only have weekends, and this time of year around here there's not much in the way of glider flying available. I'd love to fly gliders though. Seems like a blast.
 
You mentioned worrying about coming in low. I'll give you a example of how different gliders and airplanes are. In an airplane if you loose an engine during takeoff at 200 feet above the ground your landing straight ahead. This summer I was on tow in Grob-103 and did a simluated rope break at 200 feet above the ground. Due to the presence of thermals right off the end of the runway and the performance of the glider I was able to do a 360 above the end of the runway at 200 feet and then slip back in for a landing. I'm with tlewsi in that I also feel more comfortable in a glider. Part of it is the heightened sense of situational awareness you have to have, and part of it is that you can put them down just about anywhere without doing much damage to them. Off field landings are something that will happen to you as a glider pilot if you get into cross country flying and racing. Is it embaressing... only if you did something really stupid to cause the off field landing. I have actually found it to be the opposite. I've had more complements from sucessful off field landings then I have negative comments. Rule at our club is if your going to go on a cross country, leave your car/truck with a hitch fueled up with snacks and drinks in it in case a crew has to come retreive you from a field.
 
Wm226 said:
Thank you for your responses everyone! tlewis, looking forward to your post.

What do you guys have to say about the dangers of glider flying? Right now, as I'm studying glider material, I'm a bit concerned to the potential of off-field landings (How embarrassing?) - and - the fact that I wouldn't be able to execute go-arounds when landing (ex. What if I come in too low?). How can such dangers be mitigated? Granted, I don't plan to instruct in gliders; just plan on getting the Commercial add-on for now; then perhaps the CFI-G add-on later this summer (after I've reviewed the FOIs again). I'm hoping that by attaining my Commercial Glider certificate, I can better myself as a pilot (ex. improved stick and rudder skills, situational awareness, engine-out confidence, etc.).


Your input is appreciated.
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Gliders are pretty safe. Safer than airplanes anyway, certainly if you don't plan on flying them around mountains.

The biggest danger you face is a mid-air, so not much different than an airplane. Gliders soar in close proximity to each other, near other aircraft, without transponders. Maintaining a good visual lookout is the most important thing you can do.

As for being low in the pattern? Not really a big concern. Let's say you get really low, around 200' turning final. A typical 28:1 training glider is going to glide 5400', or over a mile at that altitude. And we try to avoid flying wide, long patterns in gliders anyway (to avoid powered aircraft).

Landing out is not a big fear. Find someplace flat, and land. Gliders were for the most part designed to operate from grass fields. In two years, I have never landed out, or been close to needing to. And I routinely fly out more than gliding distance from the field.
 
I want to go fly that Beech 18 on floats now. Damn it you may have just caused my bank account to get smaller.
 
Inverted25 said:
I want to go fly that Beech 18 on floats now. Damn it you may have just caused my bank account to get smaller.
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I'm trying to convince myself that I do not need to jump in the 150, head out to Sun Valley, and get an ASES add-on. I need to get my IR finished, and get started on my Comm and CFIs.

Back on topic, Gliders have always interested me. Moriarty, NM is home to a well known glider school and a soaring club. I'm honestly considering getting the Sport Glider rating (the cheap way to do it) or waiting until after I get my Comm ASEL and getting a Comm add-on (the practical way to do it). I'm not terribly interested in adding anything to my private, since I do not intend to be a Private Pilot for too much longer
 
Yea dont bother with the sport. Just wait and get your commercial add on when the time comes. Its a non event.
 
I have a sport glider rating. For me, it's all I need. (I don't want to fly at night, in controlled airspace, with more than one person, etc.) The SGS-2-33 fits the LSA requirements and they're widely available. They are the "C-152" of the glider world. To get a commercial rating you need 20 solo flights. For a sport rating, you need 3 for a total of 1 hr. By the time I made 5 solo flights, I was ready for my check ride. If I had gone the commercial add-on route, I would have needed to make 15 additional flights, with each flight consisting of a $35 tow and $6 rental (if I had just flown the pattern, or more if I had stayed up longer). I had 4 days to do my training, so getting a commercial rating would have required 15 laps around the pattern at $41 per, since that was all the time I had. At the school where I trained, pre-solo training was the same regardless of rating sought, (I suspect that to be the norm for an add-on rating regardless of location) so the only difference between sport, private or commercial was the number of solo flights required.

Since I've had my rating, I've made an additional 20+ solo flights, with each one averaging several hours of enjoyment. If I ever decide to change my mind and get a commercial rating, I now have the required experience but I went about it in a way that was more productive than 15 laps around the pattern. For me the Sport rating is perfect. To the OP, I suggest you examine the privileges you desire then decide which rating best fits your needs.
 
Unfortunately soaring is going to have to take the backseat for now. gotta use the money I have to finish the IR, get the Comm and CFI.
 
A150K said:
Unfortunately soaring is going to have to take the backseat for now. gotta use the money I have to finish the IR, get the Comm and CFI.
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Soaring, in addition to making you a better pilot, can also be a cost effective way to build hours towards that commercial cert, if you are not in a big hurry.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
Soaring, in addition to making you a better pilot, can also be a cost effective way to build hours towards that commercial cert, if you are not in a big hurry.
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Agreed. My last glider flight was a bit shy of 3 hrs: $35 tow and rental rate of $30 per hour. For 3 hrs it was $125. Landing practice is expensive, but post-solo time is cheap!
 
Agreed. My last glider flight was a bit shy of 3 hrs: $35 tow and rental rate of $30 per hour. For 3 hrs it was $125. Landing practice is expensive, but post-solo time is cheap!
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That must be a commcerial operation. Joining a club is cheaper. My club you only pay for the tow once a member. 3000=$25. No glider rental fee or anything. You just pay $500 a year membership fee. Some people might say $500 is alot for a membership. But if you fly say 50 times during the year all to 3000. Thats $1250 in tows and another 500 for the membership to put it at 1750 for the year. Say you only stay up a hour each time. That comes out to 35 a hour.
 
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