Giving my instructor the boot

[Ian_J]

unfortunately with n57 and grant h we only have one side of the story. now, i'm not disagreeing with your choices or decisions, but i am not agreeing with you both either.

first, your perception of the situation may be different from the reality, maybe they will coincide, but i can't tell since it is a one sided complaint; but have you considered that:

1.) your instructor was doing exactly what he said when he said, "i like to wait before my new students get any pilot supplies." 2 hours is what? 2 flights? it can easily be put into a log book. Could it be that this instructor is determining whether he will ever see you again (and saving you $10) But I also agree that he probably could've said, "these are the things you're going to need." It sounds like your dad is a pilot. He very well then knows you will need a logbood, so aren't you making a mountain outta a molehill and starting problems for the sake of starting problems?

2.) NO, it is not necessarily the instructor's job to schedule your flight lessons. Does he know when you are free? Probably saves you both a headache by your instructor suggesting you do something that you have information about. Lazy? I don't think so. Sure, could've he helped? I think that's great customer service, but is he lazy because he had you do it?

3.) Sometimes I like brownies too. I fly back to back flights ALL DAY and maybe, just maybe 2 days a week out of a 6.5 day work week I will get lunch. Thank god I can grab a pretzel or hotdog on the way to the plane somedays. We are not ROBOTS we are human. And yes sometimes we run a little behind schedule. I think it would have been courteous of him to apoligize, but even sometimes I forget that too.

4.) Listening to others is not necessarily a bad thing about the preflight thingy. Could be reliable, maybe not. That's why it's called gossip. People talking about other people behind their back. Why don't you ask him what he points out in a preflight as compared to other instructors? I know what my colleauges focus on that I do not, and vice versa. We all have our cocentrations.

so in summary to you, i do not think you are on the money; nor, do i think that you're crazy. I think however you may have been a little more communicative to the instrucotr and you both probably could have been slightly more professional.

As an instructor I strive to do my best at all times, and sometimes I fall short - forgive me, please. But at the same time sometimes the customer is not always right. Diplomacy helps, but the customer is not always right, just like I am not.

and granthubbell - do you mean that your instructor is not letting you land unassisted or she is landing the plane each flight? the only reason I'm asking is that I know of few pilots that can land unassisted with 10 hours if they spent time practicing maneuvers in the practice area first. Maybe if all 10 hours were in the pattern racking up 30 landings, but 5 flights to practice maneuvers and you expect to land?

Sometimes, just like in the above post, the customer is not always right. Now you may shop around until you find someone who concedes to what you tell them to do, but I think as a 10 hour pilot you may need to recognize that instructors do have more experience and know what they are doing. Had you considered that you're doing ground ref so that your pattern gets better?

I was hoping for a opposite point of view from someone... good post moxie.

 

[n57flyguy]

unfortunately with n57 and grant h we only have one side of the story. now, i'm not disagreeing with your choices or decisions, but i am not agreeing with you both either.

first, your perception of the situation may be different from the reality, maybe they will coincide, but i can't tell since it is a one sided complaint; but have you considered that:

1.) your instructor was doing exactly what he said when he said, "i like to wait before my new students get any pilot supplies." 2 hours is what? 2 flights? it can easily be put into a log book. Could it be that this instructor is determining whether he will ever see you again (and saving you $10) But I also agree that he probably could've said, "these are the things you're going to need." It sounds like your dad is a pilot. He very well then knows you will need a logbood, so aren't you making a mountain outta a molehill and starting problems for the sake of starting problems?

2.) NO, it is not necessarily the instructor's job to schedule your flight lessons. Does he know when you are free? Probably saves you both a headache by your instructor suggesting you do something that you have information about. Lazy? I don't think so. Sure, could've he helped? I think that's great customer service, but is he lazy because he had you do it?

3.) Sometimes I like brownies too. I fly back to back flights ALL DAY and maybe, just maybe 2 days a week out of a 6.5 day work week I will get lunch. Thank god I can grab a pretzel or hotdog on the way to the plane somedays. We are not ROBOTS we are human. And yes sometimes we run a little behind schedule. I think it would have been courteous of him to apoligize, but even sometimes I forget that too.

4.) Listening to others is not necessarily a bad thing about the preflight thingy. Could be reliable, maybe not. That's why it's called gossip. People talking about other people behind their back. Why don't you ask him what he points out in a preflight as compared to other instructors? I know what my colleauges focus on that I do not, and vice versa. We all have our cocentrations.

so in summary to you, i do not think you are on the money; nor, do i think that you're crazy. I think however you may have been a little more communicative to the instrucotr and you both probably could have been slightly more professional.

As an instructor I strive to do my best at all times, and sometimes I fall short - forgive me, please. But at the same time sometimes the customer is not always right. Diplomacy helps, but the customer is not always right, just like I am not.

and granthubbell - do you mean that your instructor is not letting you land unassisted or she is landing the plane each flight? the only reason I'm asking is that I know of few pilots that can land unassisted with 10 hours if they spent time practicing maneuvers in the practice area first. Maybe if all 10 hours were in the pattern racking up 30 landings, but 5 flights to practice maneuvers and you expect to land?

Sometimes, just like in the above post, the customer is not always right. Now you may shop around until you find someone who concedes to what you tell them to do, but I think as a 10 hour pilot you may need to recognize that instructors do have more experience and know what they are doing. Had you considered that you're doing ground ref so that your pattern gets better?

Illcoonsider somethings youve posted, thanks.

 

[mtsu_av8er]

unfortunately with n57 and grant h we only have one side of the story. now, i'm not disagreeing with your choices or decisions, but i am not agreeing with you both either.

You beat me to it!! LOL . . .

1.) your instructor was doing exactly what he said when he said, "i like to wait before my new students get any pilot supplies." 2 hours is what? 2 flights? it can easily be put into a log book. Could it be that this instructor is determining whether he will ever see you again (and saving you $10) But I also agree that he probably could've said, "these are the things you're going to need." It sounds like your dad is a pilot. He very well then knows you will need a logbood, so aren't you making a mountain outta a molehill and starting problems for the sake of starting problems?

Out of every 10 people that I started flying with, only one would make it past three flights.

2.) NO, it is not necessarily the instructor's job to schedule your flight lessons. Does he know when you are free? Probably saves you both a headache by your instructor suggesting you do something that you have information about. Lazy? I don't think so. Sure, could've he helped? I think that's great customer service, but is he lazy because he had you do it?

DROVE ME CRAZY when students expected me to schedule their flights. We spent alot of money on a subscription to MyFBO so that students could do it themselves. Everytime students wanted me to, "Go over their schedule with them", it was on the clock. They didn't like that, so they did it themselves.

I fly back to back flights ALL DAY and maybe, just maybe 2 days a week out of a 6.5 day work week I will get lunch. Thank god I can grab a pretzel or hotdog on the way to the plane somedays. We are not ROBOTS we are human. And yes sometimes we run a little behind schedule. I think it would have been courteous of him to apoligize, but even sometimes I forget that too.

Oh, come on - you're human??

 

[moxiepilot]

honestly i was wondering if i was going to garner any support for my post & glad to receive a little recognition. thanks guys, and thanks n57 for just taking what we say into consideration. i had a looong day of non-flying yesterday (same gound school i think 4 times in a row) because of weather, & I think i was a little cranky. not to say that i didn't try to evaluate if i was hypercritical of the posted situation, because i think they are valid counterarguments.

anyway, i have decided i am not human contrary to the original post. i am superhuman, super smart, and super cute (for all you gals out there); however I am only an average pilot.


sidenote - i LOVE MyFBO for having students schedule. i can't tell you how much time it saves me since I have studentes booking me through september 06 already. all i have to do is push people around a half hour here and there

 

[Josh]

Have you shown proof that you are a US Citizen?

If not, he can not really begin to give you any instruction, so maybe he is just covering him self for the stupid TSA requirements by having you hold off on a logbook until you bring in a Passport, or Birth Certificate and photo ID.

He can't log it if he doesn't sign your logbook as instruction given, so it would be in his interest to get you a logbook ASAP if he cares about the time he spends working being recorded for future use.

Make sure he, or any other instructor you may use, does not charge you for that time he is eating on the ground. There is at least one CFI at my FBO who does this, and it pisses me off each time I see it. Makes my profession look like a bunch of idiots, and I feel like smackin' the guy each time he does it. He has been called on it by more than one of his students, and he just kinda says, oh yeah, and gives in. This guy has been flying for 50years though, so of course, what he does is 'never' wrong.

Josh

 

[Champcar]

I usually give an instructor a few flight but my last one I only gave one chance. She was just terrible. It was my first multi flight, she didnt fallow along with me during my run up checklist and i missed somethings and she wasnt paying attention, she did nothing but talk the whole time we were in the controled airspace, she never did and positive exchange of controls, and couldnt explain to me what were the advantages of a constant speed prop....There was no way I was paying 50 dollars and hour for her.

 

[CapnJim]

n57- I was thinking about your plight, and here's what I think you should do: buy a logbook, write in the flight time, and have that instructor sign it. If he refuses without sufficient reason, talk to the flight school owner. You'll get your lessons signed if you threaten to go to a different school. If you don't get satisfaction from the owner, leave and never come back, but be sure to tell him that and why. And definitely get a new instructor, in any event.
A lot of these problems never see the light of day because people are too afraid of conflict to bring them up. You should. Builds character, as well as giving you valuable experience on how to deal with lousy captains!!

 

[Timbuff10]

If you really don't like him, go up with him and ask to do a power on stall. Just as the plane is about to stall, stomp on one of the rudders, hold on for the ride and see if he can save your life. If he can't, make sure and be able to bring the power to idle, level the ailerons/yoke, and step on the rudder that is opposite to the way you are spinning, then push forward on the yoke to break the stall.

Then ask for a new CFI

 

[SoFlo]

Boot 'em.

 

[n57flyguy]

Guys, good news. I know it seemed so probable that he was out, but I Just talked to him for two minutes and we straightend everything out right there. Im glad it worked out okay. I got my logbook that day, he signed off and yes, he told me to bring proff of citizenship next week. the Lesson went great, Ill post a lesson update in General topics. Thanks for all your help and points of views, going there I tought I would fire him, but we talked, and it worked out fine. Thanks

Paul

 

[n57flyguy]

If you really don't like him, go up with him and ask to do a power on stall. Just as the plane is about to stall, stomp on one of the rudders, hold on for the ride and see if he can save your life. If he can't, make sure and be able to bring the power to idle, level the ailerons/yoke, and step on the rudder that is opposite to the way you are spinning, then push forward on the yoke to break the stall.

Then ask for a new CFI

Ill remember that

 

[moxiepilot]

glad to hear you talked it over. good luck

 

[Timbuff10]

So he never had your birth cert. or passport but he was giving you flight training in hopes that you would eventually bring it in someday along with a logbook which he could then sign and endorse?

I was under the impression that the CFI is supposed to see that b/c and/or passport before he gives "flight instruction". I guess he could fudge the dates so it looks like he did the endorsement before the instruction was given. But then that violates the whole "be of good moral character" thing. Hmm, kind of curious as to how he logs your time.

I think legally, all you can be without that endorsement is a sightseer that can't go beyond 25nm? Am I right on all this?

Unless its a disco flight, my first handshake usually turns into a TSA endorsement.

 

[Timbuff10]

Oh whoops, the requirement to "be of good moral character" only applies to ATP candidates. I guess CFIs can be of bad moral character according to the FAA's 61.183.

Is that something you can referse though? Once of bad moral character, always of bad moral character?

 

[Theotokos]

and don't try to spare his feelings with the...it's not you, it's me speech. Tell him it's definitely you. This guy sounds like one of those instructors that has no problems with "milking" his students.

HS

Yes, deal with the uncouth like the scum they are.