Giving Dual in a Multi w/o being a MEI?

jhugz

jhugz

Well-Known Member
I remember on my CFI-I Checkride there was a way to give dual to someone in a multi without being a MEI. I may be pretty off base but I remember this question being asked on my oral and me getting it wrong and another CFI brought it up around the airport. It was AF so that may be the problem right there but if someone can hook me up with a Yah and back it up with regs I would appreciate it. I searched for it but couldn't find it.

Thanks in Advance,

jhugz
 
I may be wrong, but I do believe you can give instrument training in a twin with your II without the mei. Given you have a multi rating.
 
There is some talk at the FAA about closing this so-called "loophole" but correct, so long as the student is rated as ME pilot you may give instrument instruction to him or her in a multi.
 
Flight Instructor limitations and qualifications seems like a good place to start.

61.195
[FONT=&quot](b) Aircraft ratings. A flight instructor may not conduct flight training in any aircraft for which the flight instructor does not hold:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](1) A pilot certificate and flight instructor certificate with the applicable category and class rating; and[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](2) If appropriate, a type rating.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot](c) Instrument Rating. A flight instructor who provides instrument flight training for the issuance of an instrument rating or a type rating not limited to VFR must hold an instrument rating on his or her flight instructor certificate and pilot certificate that is appropriate to the category and class of aircraft in which instrument training is being provided.[/FONT]
Click to expand...
I understand the break down of (c) from the other thread, but doesn't (b) preclude being able to conduct training in a multi without an MEI?

Not even going to toss in (f) yet...if this training in question is for a certificate or rating.
 
AP2B said:
I understand the break down of (c) from the other thread, but doesn't (b) preclude being able to conduct training in a multi without an MEI?
Click to expand...

The two paragraphs are somewhat contradictory; paragraph (c) really should have had some phraseology like "not withstanding the requirements of paragraph (b), blah blah blah."

But (c) is clearly intended to override (b) or else the paragraph would simply have read:
[FONT=&quot](c) Instrument Rating. A flight instructor who provides instrument flight training for the issuance of an instrument rating or a type rating not limited to VFR must hold an instrument rating on his or her flight instructor certificate.[/FONT]
​
Regardless of whether or not you accept that reasoning, the FAA holds to that view, which makes the point moot.
 
But (c) is clearly intended to override (b) or else the paragraph would simply have read:
[FONT="](c) Instrument Rating. A flight instructor who provides instrument flight training for the issuance of an instrument rating or a type rating not limited to VFR must hold an instrument rating on his or her flight instructor certificate.[/FONT]​
Click to expand...
I did not "see it" in the text initially, but your explanation makes perfect sense.
 
tgrayson said:
The two paragraphs are somewhat contradictory; paragraph (c) really should have had some phraseology like "not withstanding the requirements of paragraph (b), blah blah blah."

But (c) is clearly intended to override (b).
Click to expand...
I'll disagree with the "clearly" part of that. After all, the opposing view was put forth by no less than the NE Region FAA Legal Counsel, so it wasn't clear to her.

But, yep, as pointed out in the other thread the FAA Order says exactly that.
 
5-503 REGULATORY REQUIREMENTS. In accordance with § 61.195, flight instructors may not conduct flight instruction in any aircraft for which they do not hold category, class, and type ratings, if appropriate, on the pilot and flight instructor certificates. The phrase “if appropriate” applies equally to and in combination with both certificates when instrument instructor ratings are involved.

A. Single- and/or Multiengine Ratings. According to part 61, flight instructors who hold an “INSTRUMENT-AIRPLANE” rating only on their flight instructor certificate are authorized to give instrument flight instruction in single- and/or multiengine airplanes for instrument certification, provided they hold single- and/or multiengine ratings on their pilot certificate.

B. Class Ratings. Flight instructors who hold flight instructor certificates issued under part 61, which allow only instrument instructor privileges in airplanes, may give instrument flight instruction in any class airplane that is listed without restriction on their pilot certificate. Instructors holding only a helicopter instrument rating on their flight instructor certificate are limited to conducting instrument flight instruction in helicopters.

C. Ratings Limited to Instrument. Instructors with ratings limited to instrument may not give instrument flight instruction to students who do not hold category and class ratings in the aircraft used. This would be instruction for the addition of a rating that conveys other than instrument privileges. These instructors may not certify logbooks or recommend applicants for any aircraft category or class rating.
==============================




that is from FAA Order 8900.1 - Flight Standards Information Management System (FSIMS)


I am doing my intial flight instructor certificate as a CFII instead of CFI and my dad is a lawyer and he talked to a guy at the FAA and thats what he sent him regarding what you can do with just a CFII because I was in a debate with another CFI who said even if I got just my CFII i couldnt do any instrument instruction bc i didnt have a CFI but that order clearly states with just a CFII you can do instruction in any aircraft you have listed on your commerical ticket
 
Yes you can do instrument instruction as long as you and the student have a ME, AND you have your CFII AND you have 5 hours of PIC in the make and model (baron 58 vs 55 or seminole vs seneca) I had the same question a while back, called the FAA and they said yes. Call your local FSDO and find out.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top