Getting off the scab list

hrjet said:
Scabbing is on the decline, look at Amerijet and Spirit. There's a lot of unity out there because most pilot groups have reached rock bottom, it can't get any worse.
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It could be that those jobs sucked so bad that any further deterioration was untenable. I believe that a pre-strike/Lorenzo CAL pilot did really well. Even when Lorenzo cut the pay drastically it was still a value proposition for guys who were out of work, etc and they SCABBED. Amerijet had guys crapping in a hefty bag. Spirit wasn't in the same league pay-wise as CAL pre-strike. It would be interesting to see what would happen if a relatively well-paid major went on strike. I'm thinking FedEx would potentially have SCABS - they have guys that fly disputed pairings even though it is viewed almost as SCAB-like among the other pilots.
 
WacoFan said:
they have guys that fly disputed pairings even though it is viewed almost as SCAB-like among the other pilots.
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Ok, I googled it and there is no definition for "disputed pairing", and while I have heard the term before I don't know what it means, someone want to enlighten me?
 
Monk said:
Ok, I googled it and there is no definition for "disputed pairing", and while I have heard the term before I don't know what it means, someone want to enlighten me?
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I learned it from APC. Apparently there are trips that the union deems not acceptable for whatever reason - and people who pick those disputed trips up in open time, for more money, are viewed with villany.
 
I think the deal with fedex is (help seagull?) is they have it in their contract that "x" number of pairings (a certain number) can be disputed as not being....ummmm....safe. Or not being fatigue free. Or basically not being acceptable to the union per the contract. I believe these pairings can be dropped from the lines with pay but reserves are still obligated to fly them after that. Before the reserves are forced to fly them, they can be picked up by a line holder for extra pay. The contention is if the union officially says the pairing is "unsafe" or "likely to cause fatigue" (my words), then it weakens the argument of the union to get the pairing changed if guys pick it up. It seems like there is a super-human avatar like clone pilot that can fly union disputed pairings that most claim are fatiguing.

Scab? Naw, I think that's a little strong.
 
DE727UPS said:
I believe these pairings can be dropped from the lines with pay but reserves are still obligated to fly them after that.
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Just a comment on how screwed up the airline industry is in general (from a guy who has been on reserve for 5 of the last 6 years)...

Sure, that pairing isn't safe/is too fatiguing. No WAY are we going to let an experienced high time line holder, who has seen it on his schedule for weeks and has had time to get proper rest to fly it do that. However, we have no problem dropping it on a reserve who probably has less experience and has been bouncing back and forth between early and late trips and hasn't had any time to prepare for it.

I know... I know... everybody just says to get off reserve and all my problems will be solved.
 
flyboy6585 said:
Well if you are making airline pay, with the 2.2 kids, and living in middle America you might be able to make it work.

My grandpa worked for a telephone company. Not sure what he was getting paid back in the 70s but it wasn't all that much. They lived in very rural places...and had 12 kids (8 home at the time) to feed, clothe, transport to the school. And mom was a stay at home mom. So when a union decides to strike for a month or two you "emergency fund" goes away quite rapidly. Other jobs weren't plentiful...he crossed the line because the kids were going to have to start missing meals.

I understand the whole stick together concept, but not every situation is the same. Those who cross just to make the extra money deserve to be tarred and feathered...if it literally means the difference between my kids eating or not then my kids are more important than people calling me names. He took the time to explain his situation and went on to work my more years there without any significant issues.
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In no way am I saying this to insult or disrespect your hardworking grandfather, but maybe he should have thought better about having 12 kids? That borders on irresponsible.
I grew up in a union-family, and my father wouldn't even let us buy products from companies who wouldn't allow unions on property.
 
jtrain609 said:
All you are describing are excuses.

Real men don't make excuses, they find solutions.

Scabbing is not a solution, it's a cop out and an excuse.

My grandfather had 9 mouths to feed when he went on strike when he was 50. You know what he did? He went to dig ditches for a living at the age of 50.

Real men don't make excuses.
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JTrain, as much as I agree with a majority of your posts on here, I believe that you are one of the youngsters which he speaks of who have no real idea of what it is like and basically are talking out of their arses, casting judgement on their elders when you have no realworld idea of what they were going through.
 
jwp_145 said:
In no way am I saying this to insult or disrespect your hardworking grandfather, but maybe he should have thought better about having 12 kids? That borders on irresponsible.
I grew up in a union-family, and my father wouldn't even let us buy products from companies who wouldn't allow unions on property.
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Well, I respect your opinion on that. But when your gandfather is a traditional Irish Catholic having a lot of kids is not really a question, you have the kids that God gives you.

I would have a hard time deciding on which of my aunts and uncles to choose to kill off. And consequently which cousins I don't want. Imagine if my grand parents hadn't had their last 9 kids. Luckily I would be here, but I would be missing 34 cousins and 9 aunts and uncles. Yep, the beautiful 4 month old that I held a few weeks ago wouldn't even be a thought.

But of course, then he wound't have had to cross the line...seems fair! Eliminate 43 people to make a buck...my aren't we selfish.
 
jwp_145 said:
JTrain, as much as I agree with a majority of your posts on here, I believe that you are one of the youngsters which he speaks of who have no real idea of what it is like and basically are talking out of their arses, casting judgement on their elders when you have no realworld idea of what they were going through.
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Just for my personal reference, when do I start knowing what I'm talking about? When I'm 30? When I buy a house? Have a kid? Have grandkids? Hit 40? 50? 60? When I have been through my first furlough? My second? Third?

I've been out of the job before, had to hustle for work, etc. To some, I'll always be a kid, but that's their failing, not mine.

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk
 
Reading all this about unions and airlines makes any sort of desire I had to be an airline pilot diminish even more. I'm in this industry to fly and enjoy flying, not squabble about pay rates and benefit packages (says the naive youngster on here). I don't want to join a union at all. Reading that thread on airlinepilotcentral, that guy's life is ruined (or seems to be) just because he wanted to fly and crossed a picket line. If you go on that SCAB website, they advocate slashing tires, throwing eggs and smashing windshields
As a SCAB, he/she WILL NOT be able to commute to work and WILL NEVER be able to be employed by an ALPA carrier…ever again! He/she won't even be able to walk into the Crew Room!! And, he/she can expect: broken car windows; hate mail; flat tires; Crazy glue in his/her car door locks; an egged car; bananas up the tailpipe; missing V-file documents; feces in his/her V-file; threats in his/her V-file; hotel wake-up-calls at 3:30 am; and last but not least, to have his/her flight bag shipped to the ends of the earth if left anywhere unguarded.
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That doesn't make me want to be part of any sort of organization like that
 
Unity and education.

The airlines are still heavily unionized and the internet made it much more unlikely to use the "whoops, I'm a dumbass and didn't get the memo" alibi for crossing a picket line.

At this point I'm supposed to sound like a broken record and suggest some of our newbies that just don't get it step back and read "Flying the Line" and check my email box for all of the messages about "What in the world is up with the kids on your site justifying crossing picket lines, what is that, Romper Room"? But I haven't had lunch yet.

Go figure it out, folks.
 
The way that I see it, the unions have screwed themselves with the younger generation because they haven't been active in unionizing small companies both 121 and 135. If they would just acknowledge the fact that these companies are worth the effort and get over not being able to pull enough revenue out of them, they would end up with good little union workers. Right now most of these people don't even know what a union does and think that a strike is an opportune time to make a step up to a "real job".
 
Umm, it's actually the other way around.

Organization isn't a top-down effort, it's a bottom-up effort.

ALPA or the Teamsters don't show up at your front door saying, "Join us!". Several people in your company have to express interest in organizing, THEN you approach a union and they help you through the organization process. But they're not knocking on doors like Amway salesman.

Use the search feature and look at how Colgan got organized, there's a lot of pieces to that puzzle right here on the forum.
 
well, as I said, I believe that is why there is a decline in union membership and fewer companies that are unionized.
 
I think that although unions still seem to be doing fairly well with airline membership, in general union membership though all industries is probably significantly lower percentage wise than it was generations ago.

There are many reasons for this ranging from the corporate bosses finding ways to discourage union memberships and/or shopping work out to subgroups that aren't unionized, all the way down to many younger people (myself included) don't see unions as a necessity or a useful tool.

Unions have a purpose, and had a purpose, far too often they get away from that purpose, or even worse in my opinion sacrifice the future in an effort to make today better.
 
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