Getting eaten alive by the Multi!!

[jspeed87]

ugh I'm not enjoying my multi engine add on training so far. I'm just not comfortable in this plane. I'm also nervous doing the VMC demo and power on stalls I'm scared I will put the thing in a spin. And my approach to the airport is bad. I'm always either too low or too high and too fast, always overshoot my base to final turn. Basicly I'm always behind the airplane it's really stressing me out. Any tips that can help me out? What speed should I be on downwind and base turns? Like in the Cessna I trim for 80 knots abeam the numbers, base at 65-70 that always puts me at a stable final approach.

 

[LoadMasterC141]

What Multi would this be? How many hours do you have?

 

[Roger, Roger]

Experience.

Failing that, chair flying will be the best thing for staying ahead of the airplane. Sit in your chair and go through a typical twin training flight. If the school hasn't already, develop a flow pattern for the airplane so you can set up the airplane for anything (takeoff, climb, cruise, descent, before landing) and then come back and quickly, efficiently verify with the checklist.

 

[jspeed87]

Experience.

Failing that, chair flying will be the best thing for staying ahead of the airplane. Sit in your chair and go through a typical twin training flight. If the school hasn't already, develop a flow pattern for the airplane so you can set up the airplane for anything (takeoff, climb, cruise, descent, before landing) and then come back and quickly, efficiently verify with the checklist.

BE-76 Duchess. Yeah that's what my CFI told me, I'm not flying for a few days just going to study and do lots of chair flying. I got 62 hours and about 6 hours on the Duchess.

 

[Inverted]

I felt that way for the first few hours. When I took my checkride for the add on I had 6 hours including the trip to the examiners airport. Even when I took the checkride I pretended to be confident to please the DPE but still didnt feel like master of the multi.

I did a bunch of chair and car flying to remember the VMC demo and engine out procedures. It really helped.

Then again I had 450+ hours when I did my multi add on, so I had much more complex and flight experience.

 

[derg]

Relax, train, listen, gain experience under the tutelage of a knowledgeable instructor.

You'll be fine. That bit of fear just means you're taking your training seriously and not just checking a box.

 

[ClearedToThe]

BE-76 Duchess. Yeah that's what my CFI told me, I'm not flying for a few days just going to study and do lots of chair flying. I got 62 hours and about 6 hours on the Duchess.

This is most likely the reason you feel constantly behind the airplane. It will come with time! Relax, and have fun!

 

[shdw]

Experience.

Failing that, chair flying will be the best thing for staying ahead of the airplane. Sit in your chair and go through a typical twin training flight. If the school hasn't already, develop a flow pattern for the airplane so you can set up the airplane for anything (takeoff, climb, cruise, descent, before landing) and then come back and quickly, efficiently verify with the checklist.

:yeahthat: Especially the chair flying, though you don't need a chair, a bed just before you go to sleep works just as well. Another great time is anytime you are driving, basically whenever you can spare some brain energy to daydream. I am cautious with the flow checks (except in emergencies) as they can be easily rushed, I prefer checklists to be read one item at a time with efficient management of the aircraft to allot adequate time for completion. This is of course only an opinion and you must do what is best for you, good luck.

 

[dc3flyer]

Only 62 hours and already working on the multi rating????? But then again, I didn't do mine until I aleady had the commercial/instrument.

I did a bunch of chair and car flying to remember the VMC demo and engine out procedures. It really helped.

Know the layout of the plane. Keep your checklist with you in the car. When you stop at a redlight, try to work on a checklist/flow. Imagine your instructor just pulled an engine on you and go through the procedure. Remember not to get in too big of a hurry, keep beat with the song on the radio. Mixtures.... Props.... Throttles... Identify... Dead foot is dead engine.... Verify.... and so on. Put your hands "on" those items (mimicking your movements in the airplane while you are in your car).

Remember that your speed is higher in a twin than in a single. When you level off on base, it will not need to be as long as the wings level in a single.

The good news is that you have already identified a few areas that most people have a little problem on, and you know you need to imrove. You will get the hang of it with a little more time in the plane.

 

[LoadMasterC141]

This is most likely the reason you feel constantly behind the airplane. It will come with time! Relax, and have fun!

62 hours is most certainly the big reason. You will get it though. I agree with the chair flying, though I am a big believer in true chair flying with no distractions for the most effect. Flying a twin is much more procedural than your basic cessna or piper trainer. Get that part down and you can focus more on actually flying the thing.

I've never flown the Duchess, but I know the V-speeds are only a few knots slower than the Seminole. The same guy designed both of them. You said you are flying base at 65-70? That seems too slow considering Vmc is 65.

As far as Stalls and Vmc....Have you ever spun a plane yet? If not, rent a spinnable plane and knowledgeable instructor for an afternoon. I reccomend an aerobatic aircraft so you can do even more upset training. I never felt 100% confident with Stalls and Vmc until I did this.

I flew my first twin around 230 hrs. It was a Seneca and I was very nervous about it. In the end, it was really not bad. However, I had a few hours under my belt and had been flying an Arrow for 150 hours previously. You are making a larger jump so expect it to take a bit longer. Like others said, just relax and have fun with it.

 

[NJA_Capt]

I got 62 hours and about 6 hours on the Duchess.

What possible reason would a person have for starting multiengine training with 56TT?!?!

 

[jhugz]

What possible reason would a person have for starting multiengine training with 56TT?!?!

Private multi...

To the OP...just relax. You will get it in no time. Do some chair flying and most of all just have fun. When the training is infuriating instead of fun it is time to call it for the day.

 

[phoenix 23684]

Get all of the procedures and flows! Chair fly until you can do all of the flows like motor memory. You do this and now you don't have to think in the airplane as much and you'll suddenly find yourself ahead and enjoying the experience.
Two students come to mind when I did MEIs at ATP. One, an older gentleman very successful in life, would not listen, nor memorized his flows. A younger gal who did what I asked, spend hours in the FTD going through all the maneuvers and flows. Long story short she passed her check ride with no problems while enjoying the experience, he did not.

 

[esa17]

Relax, first and foremost. Your instructor will not let you get yourself into a position he can't get you out of. He won't allow you to put him in danger, you will go home after each flight.

The second thing is patience. At 62 hours you probably don't trust your skills, nor should you. If you were the worlds best pilot you wouldn't need instruction but like the rest of us mere mortals you do. Believe me when I say there are no original mistakes in flight training. Someone else has dealt with this exact problem before.

The fear you are feeling is normal but will subside with practice. Remember how nervous you were the first time you landed, or performed a stall, or even soloed. You've made it this far so trust your instructor, study hard, and remember to enjoy what you're doing. The Duchess is a cool bird, enjoy the sights, sounds, and smells. This flying thing is all kinds of fun.

 

[jspeed87]

Private multi...

To the OP...just relax. You will get it in no time. Do some chair flying and most of all just have fun. When the training is infuriating instead of fun it is time to call it for the day.

lol 65-75 in the Cessna to the other guy. Yeah and the thing is that I'm not having fun when I do bad in the manuvers/ landings. When I'm in control doing things right thats when I get satisfaction.

 

[NJA_Capt]

Private multi...

Again...Why get a multi/pvt at such low time. It's not enough time to rent one solo, and not enough to get insurance if you buy one. Please don't say to get more multi faster, the only one that benefits is the school renting the plane ($$$). When your career is finished with umpteen thousand multi, getting it 100 hours sooner means nothing. Not trying to be a downer, just practical.

 

[jspeed87]

Again...Why get a multi/pvt at such low time. It's not enough time to rent one solo, and not enough to get insurance if you buy one. Please don't say to get more multi faster, the only one that benefits is the school renting the plane ($$$). When your career is finished with umpteen thousand multi, getting it 100 hours sooner means nothing. Not trying to be a downer, just practical.

lol I'm at Ari Ben. Anyways multi time is better. Keeps you sharp and thinking ok what's next. Which is what my instructor keeps drilling into my head. Think What's next and stop daydreaming!!

 

[Gonzo]

jspeed I had the same feelings about stalls and VMC demo. The two things that fixed it for me talking to my instructor about (it is hard to spin Duchess run the numbers and most of the time you can't get to Vmc) the other thing was a flight with Pierre he showed a lot and showed me how to slow down to go fast.

 

[jspeed87]

jspeed I had the same feelings about stalls and VMC demo. The two things that fixed it for me talking to my instructor about (it is hard to spin Duchess run the numbers and most of the time you can't get to Vmc) the other thing was a flight with Pierre he showed a lot and showed me how to slow down to go fast.

Yeah I asked my instructor that I felt very tense doing those manuvers he said the exact same thing. I haven't flown with pierre yet but I should for my stage check. The guy has like 3,000 hours on the dutchess! lol

 

[LoadMasterC141]

I misread your original post about speeds sorry.

Published approach speed in the Duchess is 76, so I guess fly that.

In the Seminole, we fly 88 kts all the way to short final, and then 80 over the numbers. So it does not drop incrementally like a Cessna with each turn you make.