Getting a Flying Job in Germany.

skyw82

Well-Known Member
I just want to get an idea on what is needed if I ever decided to get a flying job in germany or the eu at the airline level.

I have a german passport and a us passport
I have an atp with 2 type ratings one in a320
I have over 6000 hours, 5500 of which is in a turbine multi crew airplane.

So what is needed to convert an faa to jaa in my case?
What about a medical?
Do I need to be able to prove my flight time in my logbooks?
Anything more I would need to get to work in Europe?

Just wondering if it worth the time and hassle or if it is even possible. I doubt it will be more than getting application approved.
 
Its annoying. I looked into it. I think it was 14 written tests and a couple of flight tests. Your german passport will be immensely helpful though! Wanna get me one? :)
 
Its annoying. I looked into it. I think it was 14 written tests and a couple of flight tests. Your german passport will be immensely helpful though! Wanna get me one? :)

Yeah I was hoping that pic and airbus time would count towards something.

I think we'd have to get married for me to get your a passport.
 
I just want to get an idea on what is needed if I ever decided to get a flying job in germany or the eu at the airline level.

I have a german passport and a us passport
I have an atp with 2 type ratings one in a320
I have over 6000 hours, 5500 of which is in a turbine multi crew airplane.

So what is needed to convert an faa to jaa in my case?
What about a medical?
Do I need to be able to prove my flight time in my logbooks?
Anything more I would need to get to work in Europe?

Just wondering if it worth the time and hassle or if it is even possible. I doubt it will be more than getting application approved.


Passsport/EU Citizenship is the biggest roadblock from what I understand. After that, its a matter of converting your license (which is a process), and applying. From what I've heard, its much more cost effecient to do your conversions in the USA.
 
I did the license conversion. First off, JAA does not exist anymore. It is now EASA.

Secondly, you need the EASA class 1 medical. The country which holds your medical records is the country that is responsible for issuing your medical. I did the Class 1 in the UK and cost me about $750. When you renew your medical each year, it will cost you closer to $150 to renew each time. The EASA medical is more stringent than the FAA class 1, so if something comes up during the EASA medical that you were unaware of, it could affect your FAA class 1. This happened to a friend of mine and the EASA authorities are requiring him to get heart surgery, and subsequently the FAA will require him to get it as well now (for an asymptomatic condition that he was previously unaware of). Initial class 1 exams can not be done in the US. Renewals and revalidadtions can be done all over the world by approved AMEs, but you will have to make the trip to get the initial class 1 done.

Thirdly, you need to complete the ATPL theory exams. There are 14 exams, some are really easy, and some dig so deeply into subjects that you would never need to use that information for the rest of your life. It took me 6 months of nonstop studying. (I did distance learning). Since you already hold an FAA ATP, you will not have any requirement to take a formal ground school. You can self certify for the exams, but you definitely have to look at the question banks in depth before attempting the exams. The ground school that I used told me that one FAA ATP holder purchased their materials but did not even look at the question banks, and when he took the exams, he failed all and scored about 50% on each exam. Radiotelephony is even different by a lot (especially in the UK), so you have to look at those questions as well. Exams can be done in Florida once a month. There are a handful of EASA schools in Florida, but I would avoid certain ones such as NAC and Pan Am. Another Florida EASA school just shut their doors after failing an inspection recently. You will have better luck with Bristol Ground School, Oxford, Gulf Coast Training Solutions, and CATS. There are several really good question banks available for subscription. There are approximately 15,000 questions in total.

Once that is all said and done, all you need to do is find a simulator of the aircraft in which you are type rated and get an examiner out there to the sim. Easier to do if you find a sim in Europe.

You will need to do a formal exam for a radiotelephony license. This is done on a computer. You wear headsets and an examiner has a headset in another room and plays ATC. This is relatively low threat, but some examiners fail applicants in order to get a retest fee.

You will also need to have an English Proficiency level evaluated. In the UK, you can get a level 6 automatically if your examiner is also a level 6 English speaker. Otherwise, if you go to another country, you will actually have to pay for a formal English level assessment. A UK radiotelephony examiner can also sign you off for level 6 English during your radiotelephony exam.

All in all, costs vary widely from country to country, but you can expect to spend around $10,000 when you are all said and done.
 
From what I've heard, its much more cost effecient to do your conversions in the USA.

It might be more cost effective because you don't have to make the trip to Europe, but I tried that first and it was a big mistake, money and time-wise.
 
I did the license conversion. First off, JAA does not exist anymore. It is now EASA.

Secondly, you need the EASA class 1 medical. The country which holds your medical records is the country that is responsible for issuing your medical. I did the Class 1 in the UK and cost me about $750. When you renew your medical each year, it will cost you closer to $150 to renew each time. The EASA medical is more stringent than the FAA class 1, so if something comes up during the EASA medical that you were unaware of, it could affect your FAA class 1. This happened to a friend of mine and the EASA authorities are requiring him to get heart surgery, and subsequently the FAA will require him to get it as well now (for an asymptomatic condition that he was previously unaware of). Initial class 1 exams can not be done in the US. Renewals and revalidadtions can be done all over the world by approved AMEs, but you will have to make the trip to get the initial class 1 done.

Thirdly, you need to complete the ATPL theory exams. There are 14 exams, some are really easy, and some dig so deeply into subjects that you would never need to use that information for the rest of your life. It took me 6 months of nonstop studying. (I did distance learning). Since you already hold an FAA ATP, you will not have any requirement to take a formal ground school. You can self certify for the exams, but you definitely have to look at the question banks in depth before attempting the exams. The ground school that I used told me that one FAA ATP holder purchased their materials but did not even look at the question banks, and when he took the exams, he failed all and scored about 50% on each exam. Radiotelephony is even different by a lot (especially in the UK), so you have to look at those questions as well. Exams can be done in Florida once a month. There are a handful of EASA schools in Florida, but I would avoid certain ones such as NAC and Pan Am. Another Florida EASA school just shut their doors after failing an inspection recently. You will have better luck with Bristol Ground School, Oxford, Gulf Coast Training Solutions, and CATS. There are several really good question banks available for subscription. There are approximately 15,000 questions in total.

Once that is all said and done, all you need to do is find a simulator of the aircraft in which you are type rated and get an examiner out there to the sim. Easier to do if you find a sim in Europe.

You will need to do a formal exam for a radiotelephony license. This is done on a computer. You wear headsets and an examiner has a headset in another room and plays ATC. This is relatively low threat, but some examiners fail applicants in order to get a retest fee.

You will also need to have an English Proficiency level evaluated. In the UK, you can get a level 6 automatically if your examiner is also a level 6 English speaker. Otherwise, if you go to another country, you will actually have to pay for a formal English level assessment. A UK radiotelephony examiner can also sign you off for level 6 English during your radiotelephony exam.

All in all, costs vary widely from country to country, but you can expect to spend around $10,000 when you are all said and done.

Thanks for the beat write up I've seen about converting to "EASA".

In regards to medical certificates, two questions:
1) how would a "failed" medical exam in Europe come back on your FAA one (don't ask, don't tell?)

2) how do they view "SODAs" over there? I am told I have defective stereo vision (yet I pass the test every year before I hand the SODA to the AME so he can reference it on my medical app.

I have Swedish citizenship so I've considered doing flying in Europe, possibly more specifically Sweden.
 
how long are the 14 exams? Are the question banks made public?
The question banks are not public, (old ones are), but the various companies use the old ones and use student feedback to update their databases.

Some exams literally took me 10 minutes, such as mass and balance, IFR comms, and VFR comms. Other exams will take closer to 2 hours, such as flight planning and general navigation.

Best companies for question banks are Bristol, ATPL Online, Aviation Exam, and eATPL.
 
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Thanks for the beat write up I've seen about converting to "EASA".

In regards to medical certificates, two questions:
1) how would a "failed" medical exam in Europe come back on your FAA one (don't ask, don't tell?)
Many EASA AMEs are also FAA AMEs. I know for a fact that the doctor who signs you off at the end at Gatwick for your initial class 1 is also an FAA AME.

2) how do they view "SODAs" over there? I am told I have defective stereo vision (yet I pass the test every year before I hand the SODA to the AME so he can reference it on my medical app.

This is beyond my knowledge, but you can call the folks at Gatwick and ask, or you can call another AME and ask. PPrune also has a section on medical issues and they are well discussed.
http://www.pprune.org/medical-health/232620-stereopsis.html


Here is the contact info for the medical health unit at Gatwick:
E-mail: ahu@caa.co.uk
Telephone: +44 (0)1293 573674

And here is a link for the medical standards from the UK CAA website:
http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=2499&pagetype=90&pageid=13769

Class 1 is for professional pilots and Class 2 is for Private.

And here is the same thing but from the EASA website:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2011:311:0001:0193:EN:PDF
 
Not sure how an ATP conversion looks like, but a "regular" CPL conversion is much cheaper in Poland (my home country) or Czech Republic. For example, the medical fee is about $100-200 (initial) with about $100 for renewals. ATPL ground school is about $1000-1500. ATPL exams (in English of course) are about $350, you don't pay for retakes and can take them separately in any order. Flights are cheaper then in the UK, but prices vary and flight schools popular with foreign students are usually a bit more expensive then others (but they might be better handling complicated paperwork and having instructors more experienced in teaching in English). Most importantly, living expenses will be lower than in the UK or Germany, which can lead to great savings if you need to stay for a few months doing the ATPL course/exams. Once you get a Polish EASA licence you can transfer it to any other CAA in Europe very easily.
 
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