Getting a buddy his private

S

skinswin34

Well-Known Member
If this topic has been addresses... My apologies
but a buddy of mine wants to get his private and I was thinking we could just go rent a plane and go through all the steps as part 61. The more I think about it, there will be a few obstacles. If I'm renting a plane from a local FBO and keeping them in the dark about what we are up to, what obstacles will I encounter. I realize that all of the liability will fall on me and my certs. But also the solo faze will be a bit tricky too. Since the FBO isn't giving this guy a plane on his own. What else would I be up against that I'm not thinking of?
 
Don't do ANYTHING on the sly. Explain the situation to the FBO and what your intentions are. More than likely they will find a way to make it work. If not, find another plane on the field you can fly instead. Taking a buddy out for a flight, showing him a thing or two and logging it is a whole lot different than, "I wasn't in the plane when the tire blew out..."
 
I wouldn't think you'd have too much trouble finding an FBO that will let you train your friend. After all, they want business too, don't they? :)
 
Why couldn't your buddy rent the plane? And why couldn't you be his instructor? I mean, if you're bringing business I am sure there are plenty of FBOs that would let you be the instructor.

As for doing it on the sly-is it really worth it? If something happens while he's solo, would he be covered by insurance?
 
Jayrock said:
Why couldn't your buddy rent the plane? And why couldn't you be his instructor? I mean, if you're bringing business I am sure there are plenty of FBOs that would let you be the instructor.

As for doing it on the sly-is it really worth it? If something happens while he's solo, would he be covered by insurance?
Click to expand...

How can he rent the plane without a checkout when he does not have a private?

Back to the OP. I would work with the FBO. Be prepared to show you have insurance to cover any problems. I would guess that their insurance would not cover any flight training that is not conducted by their instructors. It would not be a bad idea to have your friend have renters insurance as well.
 
Don't do it on the sly.

The school will more than likely hire you to do this guys private.
Though they will more than likely want normal instruction rates, because that is where the money typically is.
 
mojo6911 said:
Some schools might let you, but I know our insurance won't allow outside instruction. Good luck.
Click to expand...

:yeahthat: At least in my area I had a lot of trouble with a similar task. I wanted to bring a few students in, not just one, and was told no by 3 diff schools.
 
Brian Z said:
How can he rent the plane without a checkout when he does not have a private?

Back to the OP. I would work with the FBO. Be prepared to show you have insurance to cover any problems. I would guess that their insurance would not cover any flight training that is not conducted by their instructors. It would not be a bad idea to have your friend have renters insurance as well.
Click to expand...

The instructor is, or receives the checkout and is cleared to instruct. No checkout needed for the buddy/student.
 
Just tell your work that a friend wants a pilots license. And you will be giving him instruction for free. If they have a problem with it, then figure out what you are going to do.
 
mshunter said:
Just tell your work that a friend wants a pilots license. And you will be giving him instruction for free. If they have a problem with it, then figure out what you are going to do.
Click to expand...

The problem with this comes when schools charge $40/hr for the CFI, but only pay the CFI $20/hr...
 
ppragman said:
The problem with this comes when schools charge $40/hr for the CFI, but only pay the CFI $20/hr...
Click to expand...


Yeah. But where I work, it's that way. The owner does it, the CP does it, we all do it. You just have to work for the right place. And the only way to know, is to ask. If you make a habbit out of it, then yeah, sorry no dice. But if you only do it for one person, I don't see a problem with it. They are still makeing money from the airplane.

Edit: Just saw the post above. I still say ask. But my company woulden't allow it unless you meet specfic critera (you gotta know someone).
 
Skins, where are you? If you're close to me, I'll set you up as a subcontractor.

Many FBOs won't let someone else instruct in their aircraft due to insurance restrictions. Some won't for other reasons. Personally, I'd rather have my aircraft flying than sitting.
 
jeepthrills said:
or my old employer charging 59, and paying 25. less than 50%...:banghead: :deadhorse:
Click to expand...

Oh goodness, not this again. Allow me to quote myself from the "CFI pay" thread a while ago:

I hear ya. But the funny thing is, the % has nothing to do with anything, other than affecting morale and showing how an individual business plan is formulated.


Every flight school has expenses they have to cover somehow. Rent, utilities, marketing, management's salaries, insurance, dispatching/tracking software, etc.

There are two main sources of income--aircraft or instructors. These sources have to cover almost all the expenses.

Let's say the school needs to make $50/hour for X hours/month in order to cover their expenses.

Maybe they choose to rent their planes for cost+$10 and instructors for cost+$40. The instructors scream, "Evil management is making $40/hour on us! Rich bastards!"

So they readjust the business plan and shift it to make the aircraft rent for cost+$40 while the instructor rates become cost+$10. Gotta come up with that $50/hour somehow.

The instructors are happy because their pay is a larger percentage of the total fee, yet the customers stop flying because the aircraft cost $30/hour more than every other flight school in the area. Oh, and since the customers decide to stop flying, the instructors are all out of work. That's nice how they get a huge percentage of...nothing.


It's all a matter of perception. The secret is to find a balance of profit on the aircraft, along with profit on the instructors, to keep everyone (customers and instructors) reasonably happy without going bankrupt.

I wish every instructor had the opportunity to see the accounting books for their school. For every instructor who would come away saying, "Ha! I told you management were thieves!" there'd probably be ten instructors who would say, "Oh, snap! The money really does disappear!"
Click to expand...

And from another one of my posts in the same thread:

But that was my point--percentage has nothing to do with how much the school appreciates or respects their employees. Maybe a higher percentage gives the instructor the perception of a better job, but that's where it ends. I care a lot more about total pay than the percentage I make. I'd rather have a job where the school charges $100/hour and pays me $30, than charge $40/hour and pay me $20. That's an extreme example, but you get the idea. Forget the percentages, just give me more money and I'll be happy.

The other thing that gets me is how a lot of CFIs think this is a situation unique to flying. There are many other industries where the shop rate and pay rate are vastly different. Take your car to the shop and you'll pay $60/hour in labor. Take your plane to the mechanic and you'll pay $80/hour in labor. Have a guy install a furnace at your home and you'll pay $X/hour in labor. Do you think the person who performs those services actually sees 100% of what was charged? Far from it. But that's the way businesses run. And we all know what a cash cow heating and air conditioning businesses are :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top