GAO Report on the pilot shortage...

JOEFRIDAY2 said:
If I read correctly, Delta made over 10 BILLION dollars in 2013.
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Our net income for 2013 was $10.5 billion, which reflects $8.0 billion of income tax benefits primarily due to the release of the tax valuation allowance. Income before income taxes was $2.5 billion, representing a $1.5 billion improvement over prior year. Our pre-tax operating margin
rose by 4 percentage points to 7% on both higher revenues and lower costs.

Welcome to the game of manipulated earnings. :) It's a pleasure to have you onboard.
 
This is a real gem:
GAO said:
According to these representatives, in their experience,
applicants with the greater number of flight hours earned outside the
airline environment were less proficient and prepared than previous
applicants who had recently completed pilot training with between 500
and 700 hours of flight time
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:rolleyes:
Any bets on what 5 of the 12 regional airlines these representatives belonged to?
 
JOEFRIDAY2 said:
My belief is that money will fix the pilot shortage short term. If the regionals came out tomorrow and starting pay was $70,000 then they would fill the classes for now.
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I think even a bump in first year pay to $30K or $40K, with adjustments all the way up the longevity scale to match, would go a LONG way. That would nearly DOUBLE the pay.

Not saying that's what it should be, but saying that type of adjustment would wipe out the "shortage" as we are seeing it currently.

But, as has been mentioned numerous times before, the business model of most (all?) of the Regionals mostly precludes them being able to do this without a massive change to how they operate.
 
Hacker15e said:
I think even a bump in first year pay to $30K or $40K, with adjustments all the way up the longevity scale to match, would go a LONG way. That would nearly DOUBLE the pay.

Not saying that's what it should be, but saying that type of adjustment would wipe out the "shortage" as we are seeing it currently.

But, as has been mentioned numerous times before, the business model of most (all?) of the Regionals mostly precludes them being able to do this without a massive change to how they operate.
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The way I see it, it costs money to make money. Pay the guys who feed the passengers into the hubs a little better, and the regional model goes on just fine. Look at the numbers. With the current fleet size of the mainline, and how full every flight is, there is no way to restructure mainline as of right now to eliminate the regionals. They just don't have enough airframes to cover all the flying. So they need the regionals for now. That may change, but for now, you can't deny it. The majority of flights go out full, or nearly so. With the lack of guys showing up, and the "shortage" at the regional level, there is a problem coming down the pipe. It's right around the corner. NOT ONE OF THE REGIONALS has enough pilots right now. Not a single one. I have been flying my ass off, on reserve. Lines are all above min guarantee right now by a significant amount, people who hold lines are being put on reserve after trips are over, etc. And, this is just the beginning.
 
Hacker15e said:
I think even a bump in first year pay to $30K or $40K, with adjustments all the way up the longevity scale to match, would go a LONG way. That would nearly DOUBLE the pay.

Not saying that's what it should be, but saying that type of adjustment would wipe out the "shortage" as we are seeing it currently.

But, as has been mentioned numerous times before, the business model of most (all?) of the Regionals mostly precludes them being able to do this without a massive change to how they operate.
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Income dynamics is an interesting subject. The jump from $25K to $30 can have surprisingly dramatic effects.
 
H46Bubba said:
Doesn't mean squat! They key word is "Delta" made 2.7 Billion dollars. How much money did Endeavor make in 2013? Delta has a decent pay scale for Delta pilots. Endeavor pilots are not Delta employees or pilots. Endeavor is a subsidiary and it's own company. Delta CEO doesn't have to explain a thing. That's on Ryan Gumm to explain. It's a very gray area. I don't agree with it, but it is what it is. I was a Comair employee and I've been down the same road. It's futile trying to get courts and mediators to agree that Endeavor is the same company as Delta. Ask a Comair pilot and they'll tell you.
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Well lets look at a few things here. It's not quite as gray as Delta would like everyone to believe.

1. Delta owns Endeavor.
2. Delta pays for the fuel in Endeavor planes.
3. Endeavor planes and pilots transport Delta passengers.
4. Endeavor generates passenger revenue for Delta.
5. Delta decides how much money they will put in the Endeavor account.
6. Delta decides if Endeavor will live or die.
7. If Delta didn't have to have Endeavor they would have let the company die in the Chapter 11.
8. Delta controls how much the pilots are paid at Endeavor.

It's time for this shell game to end.

Joe
 
I find it fascinating how so many people with college degrees (many of them in business administration) think it's so easy to just pay more money for a product that is just barely producing a profit as is.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
I find it fascinating how so many people with college degrees (many of them in business administration) think it's so easy to just pay more money for a product that is just barely producing a profit as is.
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I find it fascinating that a guy as high up in ALPA as you were to keep harping on these guys who are actually fighting for better pay to take what's given and not fight for what's right.

You have a cushy job even though the angst is there about the merger, and are "fighting your fight" by supposedly leaving. I'll believe it when I see it. Be supportive of the up and comers while letting them know the perils ahead. Stop calling them names, or talking down to them as you are now, and support them.
 
Stone Cold said:
I find it fascinating that a guy as high up in ALPA as you were to keep harping on these guys who are actually fighting for better pay to take what's given and not fight for what's right.
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That's some great rhetoric, but it has no relevance in the real world. You might as well beat your head against the wall, because it will be just as productive as trying to force someone to pay you with money that they don't have.

Be supportive of the up and comers while letting them know the perils ahead. Stop calling them names, or talking down to them as you are now, and support them.
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Telling them the truth is supporting them. And no one has been called any "names." Lose the emotion and look at this rationally.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
That's some great rhetoric, but you might as well beat your head against the wall, because it will be just as productive as trying to force someone to pay you with money that they don't have.



Telling them the truth is supporting them. And no one has been called any "names." Lose the emotion and look at this rationally.
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I had some stuff here, but it's not worth my time and effort with you. All I'll say is I have no skin in the game whatsoever and am telling you what I see as an outsider for the nth time. I have no emotions for any of it. The guys and gals invested in it might have more to say...
 
ATN_Pilot said:
I find it fascinating how so many people with college degrees (many of them in business administration) think it's so easy to just pay more money for a product that is just barely producing a profit as is.
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Obviously something needs to change operationally. If they operate on razor thin margins and the only way to secure a profit is to bring down labor then something is wrong. If the model doesn't work then either change it or give it up.

Fuel prices are a part of the industry and covering that expense should not come from our pockets. These high fuel prices have been around for 5 years now. They can't be used as an excuse any longer.

I don't expect crazy mounts of money, but they sure can afford to pay a livable wage (pay bills and an apartment) the first few years.
 
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Maurus said:
Obviously something needs to change operationally. If they operate on razor thin margins and the only way to secure a profit is to bring down labor then something is wrong. If the model doesn't work then either change it or give it up.

Fuel prices are a part of the industry and covering that expense should not come from our pockets. These high fuel prices have been around for 5 years now. They can't be used as an excuse any longer.

I don't expect crazy mounts of money, but they sure can afford to pay a livable wage (pay bills and an apartment) the first few years.
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You do know how regionals get paid right? The majors orchestrated this. Delta got tired of seeing ASA et al earning 10% profit no matter what the economic conditions.

I agree things need to change, but what needs to change is the majors need to pay what it costs to operate a regional airline.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
You do know how regionals get paid right? The majors orchestrated this. Delta got tired of seeing ASA et al earning 10% profit no matter what the economic conditions.

I agree things need to change, but what needs to change is the majors need to pay what it costs to operate a regional airline.
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Yup I do. It is at our disadvantage unfortunately.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Unfortunately, that's not profitable anymore. That means that a lot of the regional feed has to go, leaving only the 70+ seat feed, which is the only thing that's profitable...well, that and stormchaser's dirty turboprop operation. He's been gettin' 50 people to where they want to go within 7 minutes of a jet at half the fuel and labor cost.
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Fixed it for ya.
 
Hacker15e said:
I think even a bump in first year pay to $30K or $40K, with adjustments all the way up the longevity scale to match, would go a LONG way. That would nearly DOUBLE the pay.

Not saying that's what it should be, but saying that type of adjustment would wipe out the "shortage" as we are seeing it currently.
Click to expand...

I missed the first 5 pages of this thread, but I agree completely with the above post. SHOW ME THE MONEY!

I have resumes in, and an interview already scheduled, but I'm already thinking if a job is offered, I don't know how I'll be able to afford my current rent and bills. I'm getting emails from Expressjet and RAH to call them to schedule an interview. I can't believe I'm living in a time when airlines are actively hunting applicants, yet they can't fill a class. How much more of a wake up call do they need?

I want a fair wage, plain and simple.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Unfortunately, that's not profitable anymore. That means that a lot of the regional feed has to go, leaving only the 70+ seat feed, which is the only thing that's profitable.
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stormchaser said:
Fixed it for ya.
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This. Aren't things like the ATR-42/72, DHC-8-300/400, EMB-120, etc actually quite profitable?
Even the Q400 vs the CRJ700, the 700 hardly makes any sense. Half the fuel, 10 minutes slower, same pax.

Maybe the extraordinarily efficient turboprop(on short-medium routes) needs to make a comeback.
 
Why is labor seen as the only expense that has to remain stagnant or decrease for the airline to remain profitable? Oil has more than tripled during the regional jet expansion, but they somehow find a way to fit that in the operating budget.
 
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