Future Pilot:

[MJR]

Hello Everyone,


I know most of you have more then likely heard this before but here we go anyways. Like me, most of you love aviation, the thrill of flying, the freedom and the intrinsic reward it presents. As such, I am an aspiring commercial pilot. I have completed minimal hours towards completion of my PPL. However, I have always loved aviation and wanted to get into this field.



To date I am 24 years old and have successfully completed a BBA in marketing and economics and have done the post study travels that took me to Australia and South East Asia. Currently I am applying my degree working for a prosperous Business Intelligence company.



I’m now looking to the sky for a career. My major questions are concerning the airline industry itself. There have been greats post on hours required training etc, but the opinions on the industry are not transparent.



1. What are the job prospects like for future commercial pilots? I understand the baby boom is due, but people have been saying that since 2001.


2. This is what I’ve heard: “Between retirements, and rapidly increasing demand from India and China (which is pulling pilots away from North-America and Europe) it is anticipated that most airlines are going to start accepting right-seat pilots with 200 or 300 hours total time. Has anyone else herd this?

Boeing is worried. They are starting to notice that airlines aren't buying planes because they don't have pilots to fly them. To this end, Boeing is pushing for new international regulations that would make it even easier for pilots to be hired by Airlines (as co-pilots) with very little experience. If Boeing has their way, these new rules will be implemented in the next 2 years.”


Salaries are on the rise - and job security for pilots look better than it has ever looked before - in the history of aviation.
Comments?


3. How many hours do you need to typically get a job with a minor, major airline respectively? What are the salaries and routes like?


4. There has been a lot said about the lifestyle of pilots ranging from what you see in the movies, a glamorous way of life.
Comments?


5. After blowing 30,000+ CDN (11,000 PPL including books etc. 15,000 CPL and 60 hours to get me to 200 hours) to obtain about 200 hours, PPL, CPL, IR and night, what kind of job opportunities are out there? More specifically, what kinds of jobs will get me multi time, jet time and IFR time? How do I get these jobs?


6. I realize that going the civilian route is essentially a time building exercise, not only of quantity but quality of hours. I cannot join the air force as I do not have perfect vision. Also it has come to my attention that certain airlines offer ‘Cadet Training’, is it possible for a non resident to get selected let alone apply. Do these Cadet Training’ offer a competitive advantage?


7. Are there specific aviation grants offered to students studying?


8. I am more then likely going to do all 0-200 hours, at a private club in Ottawa, it has a great reputation, people there seem to really enjoy what they’re doing and they fly DA 20 Katanas. Is this the right road to go down?


9. After flying for so many hours or years does the magic wear off? Since I’ve been flying (5hrs TT) I’m always learning, overcoming hurdles, and it’s new which makes it very fun, but does it become like any other job?

10. If you had to do it all over again, what route would you take to becoming a pilot and why?



Thanks again everyone.



MJR

 

[kellwolf]

1. What are the job prospects like for future commercial pilots? I understand the baby boom is due, but people have been saying that since 2001.

If you have an accurate crystal ball that can tell you this answer, go into investing, not aviation. You'll make more money. Seriously, there are way too many variables to accurately predict what future hiring is gonna be like.

2. This is what I’ve heard: “Between retirements, and rapidly increasing demand from India and China (which is pulling pilots away from North-America and Europe) it is anticipated that most airlines are going to start accepting right-seat pilots with 200 or 300 hours total time. Has anyone else herd this?

Some regionals already do. I wouldn't expect majors to ever go this low, though. The regionals normally require some sort of specialized training such as an RJ transition course to lower the mins to that little. IMO, it's a waste of money on the potential employee's part since the company provides the exact same training anyway. If you get your CFI ratings and instruct for a few months, not only will you meet the minimums for a lot of regionals anyway, you'll learn a lot more about flying and working in a crew environment. There are other jobs out there than CFIing that would accomplish approximately the same results, though.

Boeing is worried. They are starting to notice that airlines aren't buying planes because they don't have pilots to fly them. To this end, Boeing is pushing for new international regulations that would make it even easier for pilots to be hired by Airlines (as co-pilots) with very little experience. If Boeing has their way, these new rules will be implemented in the next 2 years.”

Haven't heard this. I know here in the US, no regional (who are the ones hurting for pilots) buy from Boeing, so that's not affecting it. The pilot shortage isn't at the major level (aka Boeing's customers) here in the US. Now, there IS a talk of an ICAO crew license, but the FAA has yet to say if they're going to accept it.

Salaries are on the rise - and job security for pilots look better than it has ever looked before - in the history of aviation.
Comments?

Salaries on the rise? I know a lot of people who had the rug pulled out from under them during bankruptcies in the past few years looking at an uphill battle to get back to where they original were that would disagree with that. My own airline is in contract negotiations, and has been for over 2 years. There are some guys here that haven't seen a raise in at least that long. Job security for pilots will never be that great. You never know if your airline is going to totally go under, scale back, or just hit total financial turmoil. Pan Am was sitting pretty once upon a time. Even Southwest has a hallway with gravestones covered with names of airlines that have come and gone to remind everyone that it can happen to them.

3. How many hours do you need to typically get a job with a minor, major airline respectively? What are the salaries and routes like?

Regionals (aka minor) airlines range from anything as little as 250 to 500/1000 hours. Depends on the regional. We're hiring guys here in the 300 hour range (sometimes lower) fairly frequently, and we still can't keep up. As far as salary goes, you can check www.airlinepilotcentral.com and get those figures. I worked from May-December last year, and my W2 says I made about $11K. That was a first year FO at a regional.

Majors don't pay what the once did. Not even close. I know a lot of CAs that are very picky about which major they go to. Many can't b/c they can't afford the drastic pay cut going from regional CA to major FO. Yep, it's a pay CUT to make that jump. As far as hours, the minimum you're gonna be looking at is around 2500-3000 total with turbine captain experience around 1000. In most cases, that's the MINIMUM to apply. Most people that get hired will probably have more than that along with a 4 year degree.

4. There has been a lot said about the lifestyle of pilots ranging from what you see in the movies, a glamorous way of life.
Comments?

Don't believe any of the stuff you see in the movies. Seriously.

5. After blowing 30,000+ CDN (11,000 PPL including books etc. 15,000 CPL and 60 hours to get me to 200 hours) to obtain about 200 hours, PPL, CPL, IR and night, what kind of job opportunities are out there? More specifically, what kinds of jobs will get me multi time, jet time and IFR time? How do I get these jobs?

I don't know what the job market is like in Canada, but my sim partner here at PCL was from Canada. He instructed for about a year before he got hired here.

6. I realize that going the civilian route is essentially a time building exercise, not only of quantity but quality of hours. I cannot join the air force as I do not have perfect vision. Also it has come to my attention that certain airlines offer ‘Cadet Training’, is it possible for a non resident to get selected let alone apply. Do these Cadet Training’ offer a competitive advantage?

No airline in the US offers "cadet training." Some of the European carriers do, but I believe you have to be a EU citizen to get in with those.

7. Are there specific aviation grants offered to students studying?

Not that I'm aware of. Loans yes. Grants, no. The only ones I can think of would be tied into an accredited aviation college such as Embry-Riddle, University of North Dakota or Utah Valley State. In order to get those grants, you'd have to be enrolled in a degree program.

8. I am more then likely going to do all 0-200 hours, at a private club in Ottawa, it has a great reputation, people there seem to really enjoy what they’re doing and they fly DA 20 Katanas. Is this the right road to go down?

Whatever works best for you personally is the right road.

9. After flying for so many hours or years does the magic wear off? Since I’ve been flying (5hrs TT) I’m always learning, overcoming hurdles, and it’s new which makes it very fun, but does it become like any other job?

You should never stop learning in this business. But, yeah, there are a few days that I don't wanna go to work. Some days it is "just a job." That being said, I've definately had worse jobs in my life.

10. If you had to do it all over again, what route would you take to becoming a pilot and why?

I would have finished my four year degree while my parents were still paying. Other than that, I'm pretty happy with the road that I took.

 

[OnTheFly7]

Welcome!

I can't really elaborate any further, kellwolf did a fine job. Do a search of career changers on this site, you will find a whole heap of info. The only person who can answer your internal questions will be you!

I myself have had some major debates within myself as far as changing careers and what it will entail. I made up my mind, but I still have time to change itanic:!

A few things I may add would be to first take a discovery flight or two and make sure you enjoy it. Then I would go get a first class medical, without that there is not much hope at flying professionally. Then find an FBO you like, get your Private and see how you feel. Once you get that Private certificate, fly for fun perhaps and maybe not jump into the Inst./Comm. It is entirely up to each individual on how they pursue this career. There are many avenues in which to take. Choose the one that is best for you.

One last thing, just becuase you may enjoy something doesn't mean you will enjoy doing it to pay the bills. One of my biggest life lessons has been to find something you are interested in and see if you can make money doing it. This does not necessarily mean chase your passion and make a career out of it. Sometimes our true passions need to remain that, our passions. If we always make a career out of what we love and we lose interest in it, what do we have left.

Ex:

I loved to fish............so much so that I became a fishing guide. After a few years of doing this, I really lost interest in it. Which I thought would never happen! After taking some time away from it, the interest came back and now I thouroghly (SP) enjoy it again. However, I don't think I would ever pursue it as a career again. I lost the passion and I had no where else to spend my free time. I became lost.

Hope this does not seem as jumbled as it seems to me. If so, sorry!

 

[Airdale]

Salaries are on the rise - and job security for pilots look better than it has ever looked before - in the history of aviation.
Comments?

Hahaha...:laff: Sorry, I gotta laugh at that one. I don't think any airline has seen a dime extra for a pay raise, meanwhile CEO's are cashing in millions of dollars in bonuses. And actually if you think about it, if a CEO gave up just 1 or 2 million from their big fat bonuses, they could give all of their pilots a little extra back. Will never happen though.

Kellwolf answered the rest very well.

Bottom line is this - research, research and research. Learn everything you can about what you would be getting into before you actually get into it. Don't fall for the flashy "Fly a JET" ad that flight schools market.

 

[MJR]

Hey thanks for the promt responses guys.

The problem with only flying for fun, is that its very costly (12,000 = PPL), Im still paying off a small student loan and some traveling dept. Thus, I dont have 12 grand buring a hole in my jeans. Mind you that's the best thing is to get wrist deep and see what it's really like.

Id also want to get my training do in quich succession, not be confused with getting it done quickly.
Also being 24, I feel that's rather late, id want to start working twords my hours and career asap, to set me up in the biz as quickly as possible. I do however have 30 grand (the bank) if its going to make me money in the long run.

Currently there are many things that a large loan can get me, ie car, down payment on a home etc. Being 24, theres a bunch of things that need money now or soon. So I dont know if flying for fun would get me my loan.

PGA 07, I like you anecdote on fishing, Im a scuba diver trained, loved it and thought Id like to teach it. When I did I found it very boring and very frustrating. Magic was gone. Like you I stopped, and then re kindeled the magic :rawk:.

BTW those facts within quote concering salaries on the rise were not my words. Just what Ive heard.

Going back to the research, I have been conducting it religiously. However, I find so many differing opinions on the future of the industry ( I know its hard to predict), ways to go about training etc. Very overwheling.

Again guys thanks!

 

[t-cart]

If you have an accurate crystal ball that can tell you this answer, go into investing, not aviation. You'll make more money. Seriously, there are way too many variables to accurately predict what future hiring is gonna be like.




Some regionals already do. I wouldn't expect majors to ever go this low, though. The regionals normally require some sort of specialized training such as an RJ transition course to lower the mins to that little. IMO, it's a waste of money on the potential employee's part since the company provides the exact same training anyway. If you get your CFI ratings and instruct for a few months, not only will you meet the minimums for a lot of regionals anyway, you'll learn a lot more about flying and working in a crew environment. There are other jobs out there than CFIing that would accomplish approximately the same results, though.



Haven't heard this. I know here in the US, no regional (who are the ones hurting for pilots) buy from Boeing, so that's not affecting it. The pilot shortage isn't at the major level (aka Boeing's customers) here in the US. Now, there IS a talk of an ICAO crew license, but the FAA has yet to say if they're going to accept it.



Salaries on the rise? I know a lot of people who had the rug pulled out from under them during bankruptcies in the past few years looking at an uphill battle to get back to where they original were that would disagree with that. My own airline is in contract negotiations, and has been for over 2 years. There are some guys here that haven't seen a raise in at least that long. Job security for pilots will never be that great. You never know if your airline is going to totally go under, scale back, or just hit total financial turmoil. Pan Am was sitting pretty once upon a time. Even Southwest has a hallway with gravestones covered with names of airlines that have come and gone to remind everyone that it can happen to them.



Regionals (aka minor) airlines range from anything as little as 250 to 500/1000 hours. Depends on the regional. We're hiring guys here in the 300 hour range (sometimes lower) fairly frequently, and we still can't keep up. As far as salary goes, you can check www.airlinepilotcentral.com and get those figures. I worked from May-December last year, and my W2 says I made about $11K. That was a first year FO at a regional.

Majors don't pay what the once did. Not even close. I know a lot of CAs that are very picky about which major they go to. Many can't b/c they can't afford the drastic pay cut going from regional CA to major FO. Yep, it's a pay CUT to make that jump. As far as hours, the minimum you're gonna be looking at is around 2500-3000 total with turbine captain experience around 1000. In most cases, that's the MINIMUM to apply. Most people that get hired will probably have more than that along with a 4 year degree.



Don't believe any of the stuff you see in the movies. Seriously.



I don't know what the job market is like in Canada, but my sim partner here at PCL was from Canada. He instructed for about a year before he got hired here.



No airline in the US offers "cadet training." Some of the European carriers do, but I believe you have to be a EU citizen to get in with those.



Not that I'm aware of. Loans yes. Grants, no. The only ones I can think of would be tied into an accredited aviation college such as Embry-Riddle, University of North Dakota or Utah Valley State. In order to get those grants, you'd have to be enrolled in a degree program.




Whatever works best for you personally is the right road.



You should never stop learning in this business. But, yeah, there are a few days that I don't wanna go to work. Some days it is "just a job." That being said, I've definately had worse jobs in my life.



I would have finished my four year degree while my parents were still paying. Other than that, I'm pretty happy with the road that I took.

Nice reply Kellwolf, Thanks for the insight. FLY SAFE T.C.

 

[flyover]

Quote:
Boeing is worried. They are starting to notice that airlines aren't buying planes because they don't have pilots to fly them. To this end, Boeing is pushing for new international regulations that would make it even easier for pilots to be hired by Airlines (as co-pilots) with very little experience. If Boeing has their way, these new rules will be implemented in the next 2 years.”
Haven't heard this. I know here in the US, no regional (who are the ones hurting for pilots) buy from Boeing, so that's not affecting it. The pilot shortage isn't at the major level (aka Boeing's customers) here in the US. Now, there IS a talk of an ICAO crew license, but the FAA has yet to say if they're going to accept it.

I've been talking to people associated with Boeing's overseas training, particuarly Asia. They say Boeing is planning for the need for much more "zero-hero" type of training. There just doesn't begin to be enough experienced pilots worldwide to man up all of Boeings jets.

And actually if you think about it, if a CEO gave up just 1 or 2 million from their big fat bonuses, they could give all of their pilots a little extra back. Will never happen though.

Actually if you do the math it doesn't amount to anything compared to total pilot salaries at an airline of any size. It's purely symbolic. Not that the symbolism doesn't matter.