Future Pan Am Flight Academy student

"few of them have any DIRECT experience with any of the academies, and thus have limited credibility."

Yeah...I'm just a dumb 757/767 pilot for a major airline. Don't listen to me.

If you want to talk credibility, I'd say take a grain of salt the opinion of someone who works for PanAm. I once talked to a DCA CFI who could care less about the half truths in their marketing statements. He said it brought new students in the door and that's all that mattered....more students for him.

I don't need to have any direct background with PanAm to know their marketing and advertising doesn't tell the full story. In fact, it's because I have so much experience in the industry that I can see it for what it is. It's easy to fool those who don't know any better.

I'd encourge those interested in PanAm to go check it out. Be sure to break away from the planed tour with a "career counselor", or whatever, to talk to some students alone. Also, talk to some recent grads but not just the ones the school recommends to you. That's how you will get the best feedback to help you make your decision.
 
[ QUOTE ]
"few of them have any DIRECT experience with any of the academies, and thus have limited credibility."

Yeah...I'm just a dumb 757/767 pilot for a major airline. Don't listen to me.

If you want to talk credibility, I'd say take a grain of salt the opinion of someone who works for PanAm. I once talked to a DCA CFI who could care less about the half truths in their marketing statements. He said it brought new students in the door and that's all that mattered....more students for him.

I don't need to have any direct background with PanAm to know their marketing and advertising doesn't tell the full story. In fact, it's because I have so much experience in the industry that I can see it for what it is. It's easy to fool those who don't know any better.


[/ QUOTE ]

Mr UPS,
I can understand why a guy like Mavmb would post negatively about Pan Am. He went to the school, and had a bad experince there. But you? I don't think you went there as a student, or even visited just out of curiosity. This I got from the quote above. (no direct contact) I am living proof that the school can deliver on what it promised. I now have the flight time where I can start interviewing at airlines in the next few months. Thats what they promised.
I would think a guy in your position, flying for a great company would just be happy to talk to anyone about aviation. As a "youth minister" it would seem you should be more "neutral" about which flight school one would attend. I love aviation, and I talk to as many people as i can about it. I sure dont go around knocking other flight schools for any reason. I would be happy to see someone just take an interest in it.
The way you speak of Pan Am makes me wonder what your motives really are. Why would you care if someone
chooses Pan Am? You appear to be acting as some kind of "watch dog" for misleading advertising. Well I am not misleading you or anyone else by saying I got what I paid for, I got the most out of it, and I got what was promised.
If you think the advertising "fools" the unknowing, then we have a lot of ignorant morons running around. We all know a flight school can't get you a job. You go to flight school to learn to fly. Thats it. It's up to you to make the most of it, which could lead to a job. And any potential student who takes 5 minutes to do some research, can easily wade through the "half truths".
While you are at your part time job of "misleading advertising watch dog", why dont you go after the quick weight loss ads, or the grow hair fast ads, or the 50 year old Bowflex grandmother (results not typical) ads?
Better yet, stick to your day job as a Boeing pilot.

And I do have credibility. I hold a salaried position at Pan Am, I work with one of our foriegn contracts. So it will not affect me if this person goes to Pan Am or not. (other than I would like the doors to stay open)
 
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....I don't need to have any direct background with PanAm to know their marketing and advertising doesn't tell the full story. In fact, it's because I have so much experience in the industry that I can see it for what it is. It's easy to fool those who don't know any better.

I'd encourge those interested in PanAm to go check it out. Be sure to break away from the planed tour with a "career counselor", or whatever, to talk to some students alone. Also, talk to some recent grads but not just the ones the school recommends to you. That's how you will get the best feedback to help you make your decision.

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yeahthat.gif
 
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[ QUOTE ]
"few of them have any DIRECT experience with any of the academies, and thus have limited credibility."

Yeah...I'm just a dumb 757/767 pilot for a major airline. Don't listen to me.

If you want to talk credibility, I'd say take a grain of salt the opinion of someone who works for PanAm. I once talked to a DCA CFI who could care less about the half truths in their marketing statements. He said it brought new students in the door and that's all that mattered....more students for him.

I don't need to have any direct background with PanAm to know their marketing and advertising doesn't tell the full story. In fact, it's because I have so much experience in the industry that I can see it for what it is. It's easy to fool those who don't know any better.


[/ QUOTE ]

Mr UPS,
I can understand why a guy like Mavmb would post negatively about Pan Am. He went to the school, and had a bad experince there. But you? I don't think you went there as a student, or even visited just out of curiosity. This I got from the quote above. (no direct contact) I am living proof that the school can deliver on what it promised. I now have the flight time where I can start interviewing at airlines in the next few months. Thats what they promised.
I would think a guy in your position, flying for a great company would just be happy to talk to anyone about aviation. As a "youth minister" it would seem you should be more "neutral" about which flight school one would attend. I love aviation, and I talk to as many people as i can about it. I sure dont go around knocking other flight schools for any reason. I would be happy to see someone just take an interest in it.
The way you speak of Pan Am makes me wonder what your motives really are. Why would you care if someone
chooses Pan Am? You appear to be acting as some kind of "watch dog" for misleading advertising. Well I am not misleading you or anyone else by saying I got what I paid for, I got the most out of it, and I got what was promised.
If you think the advertising "fools" the unknowing, then we have a lot of ignorant morons running around. We all know a flight school can't get you a job. You go to flight school to learn to fly. Thats it. It's up to you to make the most of it, which could lead to a job. And any potential student who takes 5 minutes to do some research, can easily wade through the "half truths".
While you are at your part time job of "misleading advertising watch dog", why dont you go after the quick weight loss ads, or the grow hair fast ads, or the 50 year old Bowflex grandmother (results not typical) ads?
Better yet, stick to your day job as a Boeing pilot.

And I do have credibility. I hold a salaried position at Pan Am, I work with one of our foriegn contracts. So it will not affect me if this person goes to Pan Am or not. (other than I would like the doors to stay open)

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Turkey,
I can't begin to explain how far off base you are here.
 
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Hello I am a current student at Southeastern Oklahoma State University, Ok. I am currently working on my private in my first semester as a transfer student from a community college. i am thinking of transfering to Pan Am flight academy for cost plus I love Florida. I currently flying a Cessna 152. Could the current students please tell me what is like to attend Pan Am academy, operations ect. I currently in a Part 141 program flying in an uncontrolled airport. i trained previously trained at Hollywood North perry airport which was a controlled airport. your response is apreciated.

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See it's so easy to tell the difference between a real student looking for advice and the imposters, jjzzak, who are just Pan Am admin. Luke, good luck to you buddy. I just have this piece of advice. It doesn't matter where you get your ratings, so try and train in places where you can save as much money as you can. There is a big difference between paying 40,000 for your pilot ratings and paying over 100,000. And don't get fooled into any "airline style" training crap either. You need Commercial ASEL/MEL, and CFI,CFII,MEI and nothing else. And some people even skip the single engine stuff. Any other programs will be wasting thousands of dollars and your time!
 
Mav.. you really should be the LAST person to give advice. Aren't you a real estate agent now?? How is that working out for you?
 
[ QUOTE ]
If you think the advertising "fools" the unknowing, then we have a lot of ignorant morons running around. We all know a flight school can't get you a job. You go to flight school to learn to fly. Thats it. It's up to you to make the most of it, which could lead to a job. And any potential student who takes 5 minutes to do some research, can easily wade through the "half truths".

[/ QUOTE ]


Just like John H told us about what the ASA recruiter said to him at the WMU career fair i would say there are alot of people out there who have zero clue about whats up in whether it be in flight schools or college programs. For example (not disrespecting my home community college) but the i ve talked to quite a few people in the aviation program and I'd venture to say 75% of em havent the foggiest idea of how the industry is run or just how hard the career really is.
 
\"jetcareers watch dog for misleading advertising\"

"As a "youth minister" it would seem you should be more "neutral" about which flight school one would attend."

What? I honestly have no idea how you can draw that conclusion? Could you say it a different way for me?

"Why would you care if someone chooses Pan Am?"

I really don't. As long as they make the decision based on their own, in depth, research. They shouldn't pay any attention to the marketing or seminars. Go talk to the students and grads of their choosing, not PanAm's. If you still want to go there, then more power to you.

"You appear to be acting as some kind of "watch dog" for misleading advertising"

Abso-friggen-loutly. I am. I totally resemble that remark. It's a dirty job but someone has to do it.

"any potential student who takes 5 minutes to do some research, can easily wade through the "half truths"."

Maybe...but can you explain to me why the half truths exist in the first place? Maybe we are on to something about why I'm involved in youth ministry and don't like half truths?

"While you are at your part time job of "misleading advertising watch dog", why dont you go after the quick weight loss ads, or the grow hair fast ads, or the 50 year old Bowflex grandmother (results not typical) ads?"

See....here's the thing about that...and you bring up a good point. I've been a pilot since 1978 and a CFI since 1981. Flight training, general aviation, and the novice's pursit of the career are near and dear to my heart. I think of it as sacred. When some flight school taints what I think is sacred with misleading statements and advertising...it really bothers me. We are talking about teaching people how to fly airplanes and aviation career decisions. Not weight loss or whether UPS misstates their superiority to Fedex. Your schoools marketing approach is really a slap in the face to the career...I really belive that.

This is stuff I know a little about, seeing as how I pursued the career through the 80's and have been with a major since 1990. No...I don't have any direct experience with PanAm's training but I can sure as heck read their website and see it for what it is. This is something a novice might not be able to do. Thus....I feel obligated to be the "jetcareers watch dog for misleading advertising" Thanks for coining the phrase...I really like it...

"Better yet, stick to your day job as a Boeing pilot."

Yeah...and thank Gawd it's a day job, kinda rare for UPS. I bid number 4 out of 120 guys so I can work out these sort of things. Gives me a lot of free time to patrol this site with my new job as..."jetcareers watch dog for misleading advertising"

You seem annoyed with what I have to say and yet you don't really address the issue. To you think PanAm's marketing is above board or not?
 
Re: \"jetcareers watch dog for misleading advertising\"

Right off the PAIFA website: (Career pilot development page)

Pan Am International Flight Academy Mission: To Provide our students the quality training necessary to begin their airline pilot careers FASTER and with a higher degree of assurance - FOR SURE - than possible at any other aviation academy.

PAIFA will train you FASTER

PAIFA features one of the largest fleets of New Piper Aircraft. Having the newest and most reliable training aircraft available enables us to meet our objective of dispatching flights on time, every time. You will not experience the training delays normally associated with flying older aircraft typically used at other academies. By minimizing these delays, you can complete your training sooner (see the Tarver Report) and then obtain an airline job FASTER.


PAIFA will prepare you for success

We created our Career Pilot Program with direct guidance from the airlines. We based our training programs on practical job preparation, rather than just the minimum FAA requirements followed by most traditional flight schools. As a result of this cooperative effort, PAIFA graduates are highly regarded in the industry and have a record of success, demonstrated by our exceptional placement record – FOR SURE.


PAIFA graduates get JOBS!
PAIFA employs a dedicated Pilot Placement Manager whose primary responsibility is to place graduates with the airlines. The relationships we have developed over the years with numerous regional and major airlines offer our graduates many more choices than are available at other schools – FOR SURE.

I dont see any half truths in these statements. All Pan Am is saying is that you will earn your ratings fast, have quality instruction, and when you meet the flight time requirements, be in a good position to interview.
(They did leave the part out about getting hired as a CFI after you complete training, to build those hours.)

Again, from the website:
Job Placement

Most Pan Am International Flight Academy graduates are placed at an airline when he/she has approximately 1000 hours of flight time. Although, this may vary depending on education, flight hours, airline hiring needs, etc.; this number is significantly lower than the actual hiring minimums set by most airlines. The lower minimums required of our graduates are due to the quality, standards and reputation of our training program.



Pan Am International Flight Academy employs a dedicated Pilot Placement Manager whose primary responsibility is to place graduates with the airlines. The relationships we have developed over the years with numerous regional and major airlines offer our graduates many more choices than are available at other schools – FOR SURE.



Recent PAIFA graduates are flying for the following airlines: SkyWest, Chautauqua Airlines, Mesaba Airlines (Northwest Express), Comair Airlines (Delta Connection), Chicago Express Airlines (ATA), Trans States Airlines (American Connection), AirNet Express, fractional ownership companies, corporate flight departments and as demonstration pilots for business jet manufacturers. Over the years, PAIFA graduates have been placed with over 50 airlines around the world.



Click here to see a list of our recent placements.

The above statement is, I think, very responsible of the school. I know for a fact it is true because American Eagle lowered their mins for PAIFA grads to 700TT & 100 Multi. (They have since stopped hiring because of flow-back from American.) It also states that hiring by airlines is variable, depending on education, flight time, demand, ect. I see no half-truths here either.

More from the website:
January 18, 2004 - Aero-News.net - "December Airline Hiring: Better Than Expected"
November 11, 2004 - Aero-News.net - "Aviation Hiring Double Last Year's"
November 5, 2004 - Yahoo Finance - "Mesa Air Group, Inc. Reports 51.3% Increase in October 2004 Traffic"
October 13, 2004 - The Courier Journal - "UPS plans to hire 100 pilots"
October 11, 2004 - Yahoo Finance - "Pinnacle Airlines Releases September Traffic"
October 6, 2004 - Regional Airline Association - "Second Quarter Regional Airline Revenue Passenger Miles And Enplanements Show Significant Increase"
September 26, 2004 - MSNBC - "Northwest Airlines Sees Local Potential"
July 20, 2004 - Yahoo Finance - "AirTran Airways Exercises Options for Two Boeing 737 Aircraft"

These are some of the positive articles written by sources independent from Pan Am, that they post on the website. I dont see anything wrong with posting "good news" articles about an industry you are involved in.

Directly off the UPS website: (UPS news)
Press Release
Dale Jarrett Says "Yes" to Racing the Big, Brown UPS Truck


02/14/2005

Press Release
Mahoney Retiring As Transportation Chief; McDevitt Selected As Successor


02/14/2005

Press Release
WIPP Forms Alliance with UPS to Strengthen Economic and Public Policy Impact of Women Entrepreneurs


02/10/2005

Press Release
UPS to Hire 200 New Pilots


02/09/2005

Press Release
UPS Board Increases Dividend, Names Beystehner A Director


02/09/2005

Press Release
UPS Investing To Build Facilities, and Logistics Network In China


02/08/2005

Press Release
New UPS Technology Helps Businesses Navigate Complexities Of Global Trade


02/07/2005

Press Release
UPS to Acquire Messenger Service Stolica S.A.


02/02/2005


Press Release
UPS Capital Announces New Master Agent in the Philippines


01/28/2005

Press Release
UPS Secures 11 Boeing MD-11 Freighters


01/28/2005

Press Release
On Valentine's Day, Cupid is Dressed in Brown


01/27/2005

Press Release
UPS 4th Quarter Shows 10% Revenue Gain


01/26/2005

Press Release
UPS Announces Extended ISC Partnership


01/20/2005

Press Release
UPS to Release 4th Quarter Results on Thursday, Jan. 27, 2005


01/19/2005

Press Release
The UPS Foundation Adds Nutrition to Initiative to Alleviate Hunger

I don't see any "bad news" here. Look they are hiring 200 new pilots (2/10/05) and securing 11 MD-11's(1/28/05)!!!

DE727UPS, I don't want to argue with you over this, it seems like a waste of time because people will make up their own minds no matter what we say. You can find the same so called "half-truths" in any advertising, in any industry, at any company.

Would you do me a huge favor? Could you walk in my resume? Do you think they would interview an 800 hour CFI? If not I also have a furloughed American Airlines MD-80 F/O friend who could use a little help too. <--- no kidding
 
Re: \"jetcareers watch dog for misleading advertising\"

I consider teaching people to fly airplanes sacred, and held to a higher standard than your usual corporate america BS marketing.

I look at your website and I see the news links that only mention good news. Yet, there is a lot of bad news in the industry these days? Do you disagree? Don't you think newbie coming to your website should have an accurate picture of what's up? How do you explain this? I think PanAm uses typical corporate american advertising methods. So does UPS. I could care less what BS UPS pedals, they aren't teaching people to fly airplanes.

I've recommended two friends at UPS already, both are RJ checkairmen. Will do another one when he has 1000 PIC turbine. Networking is REALLY important in this business......

"it seems like a waste of time because people will make up their own minds no matter what we say"

I don't know...someone recently said the higher ups at PanAm read this stuff.

"If not I also have a furloughed American Airlines MD-80 F/O friend who could use a little help too. <--- no kidding"

I think you are kidding....
 
Re: \"jetcareers watch dog for misleading advertising\"

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Most Pan Am International Flight Academy graduates are placed at an airline when he/she has approximately 1000 hours of flight time. Although, this may vary depending on education, flight hours, airline hiring needs, etc.; this number is significantly lower than the actual hiring minimums set by most airlines. The lower minimums required of our graduates are due to the quality, standards and reputation of our training program.

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Uh, sure. 1000 hrs. is the current mins for AT LEAST: ExpressJet, Eagle, Mesa, Mesaba, Great Lakes, Skyway, Colgan, Commutair, Piedmont (I think), Skywest, Horizon (I think) and probably several others- especially if you know someone. My point is, who gives a rats ass that PanAm grads get hired with 1000 hrs....so do a ton of other guys who went to Little Joe's Part 61 flight school out in East Bumble•.

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The above statement is, I think, very responsible of the school. I know for a fact it is true because American Eagle lowered their mins for PAIFA grads to 700TT & 100 Multi.

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Funny, out of 31 people in my new-hire class at Eagle last Sept., only 1 was from PanAm. Of the group of 12 that I interviewed with in August, 2 were from PanAm, and neither were hired.

Those mins just get you the interview, they don't get you the job.

Just making some observations.
 
Re: \"jetcareers watch dog for misleading advertising\"

[ QUOTE ]
This PanAm [censored] is getting old.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good.. Now go find someone else's Cherrios to piss in!!!
 
Re: \"jetcareers watch dog for misleading advertising\"

UPS,
No I am not kidding about my friend. Why would I kid about that? Are you saying I am lying about having this friend? Or are you saying that you would never walk in his resume?
 
Re: \"jetcareers watch dog for misleading advertising\"

Holy cow. I'm waiting for my flight home, thought I'd drop in and see what I'm getting all of the PM's about and holy cow!
 
Re: \"jetcareers watch dog for misleading advertising\"

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Holy cow. I'm waiting for my flight home, thought I'd drop in and see what I'm getting all of the PM's about and holy cow!

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Why are people PMing you about THIS crap? They got nothing else better to do?
 
Re: \"jetcareers watch dog for misleading advertising\"

LC. I'll give you a little hint on how networking works. You help out your friends and people you like....

You and your American friend don't fit in that catagory. Maybe your American friend knows somebody from UPS who could recommend him, assuming he even wants to work for UPS. Be sure he has 1000 PIC turbine.
 
Re: \"jetcareers watch dog for misleading advertising\"

Doug. I hope I'm not the cause of your PMer going crazy. If anyone has anything to say, they should keep it here at the forums....
 
Re: \"jetcareers watch dog for misleading advertising\"

[ QUOTE ]
LC. I'll give you a little hint on how networking works. You help out your friends and people you like....

You and your American friend don't fit in that catagory. Maybe your American friend knows somebody from UPS who could recommend him, assuming he even wants to work for UPS. Be sure he has 1000 PIC turbine.

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You must be referring to theTurkey, as I don't have anyone in mind for you to refer...

And are you implying that I don't understand how "networking" works because I disagree with something that you believe?? Unless I am reading too much into it, are you saying that you don't "like" us because we did our training at Pan Am?? I REALLY hope that you are not so caught up in this that you would make it that personal.
 
Re: \"jetcareers watch dog for misleading advertising\"

[ QUOTE ]
Pan Am International Flight Academy Mission: To Provide our students the quality training necessary to begin their airline pilot careers FASTER and with a higher degree of assurance - FOR SURE - than possible at any other aviation academy.

PAIFA will train you FASTER


[/ QUOTE ]
really?
 
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