uvscaviator
New Member
So what do you guys all think of this?
http://www.pilotinvestors.com/
http://www.pilotinvestors.com/
Future of Air Travel
- Thread starter uvscaviator
- Start date
Tommay85
Well-Known Member
Hasnt it been shown over and over that the only way to have a profitable mass transit system in the air is the hub and spoke system? Or mostly based off the hub and spoke system with a few point to point flights on the heavier routes? I might have just made that up though. It is 1 in the morning no less.
The public only looks down on pilots because they're job sucks.
The public only looks down on pilots because they're job sucks.
CaptainChris87
New Member
yikes, the prestige of being a pilot is now being shot down, who comes up with this, hopefully theyll still have to wear a tie and dress shirt, instead of getting matching uniforms with the colors of the plane.
flyover
New Member
[ QUOTE ]
Hasnt it been shown over and over that the only way to have a profitable mass transit system in the air is the hub and spoke system?
[/ QUOTE ]
OK that was a typo right? You've been to a planet where over and over they've had a profitable mass transit system in the air?
[ QUOTE ]
hopefully theyll still have to wear a tie and dress shirt
[/ QUOTE ]
Hey! You define professional your're way and I'll use mine. I'm counting on polo shirt, shorts in the summer, and sneakers.
[ QUOTE ]
The aircraft taxi’s over to where you are waiting and within a minute, one of the two pilots steps out to greet you.
[/ QUOTE ]
The other makes a dash for the john in the FBO, furtively lighting a cigarette for a quick puff or two as he crosses the ramp.
Hasnt it been shown over and over that the only way to have a profitable mass transit system in the air is the hub and spoke system?
[/ QUOTE ]
OK that was a typo right? You've been to a planet where over and over they've had a profitable mass transit system in the air?
[ QUOTE ]
hopefully theyll still have to wear a tie and dress shirt
[/ QUOTE ]
Hey! You define professional your're way and I'll use mine. I'm counting on polo shirt, shorts in the summer, and sneakers.
[ QUOTE ]
The aircraft taxi’s over to where you are waiting and within a minute, one of the two pilots steps out to greet you.
[/ QUOTE ]
The other makes a dash for the john in the FBO, furtively lighting a cigarette for a quick puff or two as he crosses the ramp.
griffithvoice
New Member
quote/
Hey! You define professional your're way and I'll use mine. I'm counting on polo shirt, shorts in the summer, and sneakers.
quote/
Thats a Great Idea!. Actualy, in australia the Virgin Blue pilots have Brown leather bomber jackets and it's fairly casual which I thinks pretty cool.
http://www.bfound.net/detail.aspx?jobId=27356&CoId=43
Thats a link to their recruitment site.
Hey! You define professional your're way and I'll use mine. I'm counting on polo shirt, shorts in the summer, and sneakers.
quote/
Thats a Great Idea!. Actualy, in australia the Virgin Blue pilots have Brown leather bomber jackets and it's fairly casual which I thinks pretty cool.
http://www.bfound.net/detail.aspx?jobId=27356&CoId=43
Thats a link to their recruitment site.
B767Driver
New Member
[ QUOTE ]
The public only looks down on pilots because they're job sucks.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hmmm. I still think I have one of the best jobs in the world. Even after pay cuts and pension freezes, my compensation package is better than most of my peers in other professions.
I didn't realize that the public denigrated the piloting profession. Anyway, my job satisfaction does not hinge upon seat 29A envying my aviating prowess. My satisfaction is derived from completing a professional flight...using my experience and knowledge base to expertly complete a flight in the face of all kinds of threats along the way. That's why pilots nod to each other as they walk down the concourse...they're the only ones who truly understand what it takes to do the job once the cockpit door is closed.
If Joe public fails to understand the tasks and skills involved...it's due to the professionalism of the folks up front that make it look easy. I won't be deterred in my professionalism by Joe's ingorance.
The public only looks down on pilots because they're job sucks.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hmmm. I still think I have one of the best jobs in the world. Even after pay cuts and pension freezes, my compensation package is better than most of my peers in other professions.
I didn't realize that the public denigrated the piloting profession. Anyway, my job satisfaction does not hinge upon seat 29A envying my aviating prowess. My satisfaction is derived from completing a professional flight...using my experience and knowledge base to expertly complete a flight in the face of all kinds of threats along the way. That's why pilots nod to each other as they walk down the concourse...they're the only ones who truly understand what it takes to do the job once the cockpit door is closed.
If Joe public fails to understand the tasks and skills involved...it's due to the professionalism of the folks up front that make it look easy. I won't be deterred in my professionalism by Joe's ingorance.
Tommay85
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
OK that was a typo right? You've been to a planet where over and over they've had a profitable mass transit system in the air?
[/ QUOTE ]
Haha, yeah I guess so.
[ QUOTE ]
Hmmm. I still think I have one of the best jobs in the world. Even after pay cuts and pension freezes, my compensation package is better than most of my peers in other professions.
I didn't realize that the public denigrated the piloting profession. Anyway, my job satisfaction does not hinge upon seat 29A envying my aviating prowess. My satisfaction is derived from completing a professional flight...using my experience and knowledge base to expertly complete a flight in the face of all kinds of threats along the way. That's why pilots nod to each other as they walk down the concourse...they're the only ones who truly understand what it takes to do the job once the cockpit door is closed.
If Joe public fails to understand the tasks and skills involved...it's due to the professionalism of the folks up front that make it look easy. I won't be deterred in my professionalism by Joe's ingorance.
[/ QUOTE ]
I meant the publics job sucks. I agree with you totally which is why this doesnt really bother me much. I just think I'd like flying the big stuff better and dont like the idea of a bunch of little CRAP clogging up the sky. What the hell is so efficient about carrying a few people in a small jet. I would think the seat cost per mile and fuel consumed per person would be insane.
OK that was a typo right? You've been to a planet where over and over they've had a profitable mass transit system in the air?
[/ QUOTE ]
Haha, yeah I guess so.
[ QUOTE ]
Hmmm. I still think I have one of the best jobs in the world. Even after pay cuts and pension freezes, my compensation package is better than most of my peers in other professions.
I didn't realize that the public denigrated the piloting profession. Anyway, my job satisfaction does not hinge upon seat 29A envying my aviating prowess. My satisfaction is derived from completing a professional flight...using my experience and knowledge base to expertly complete a flight in the face of all kinds of threats along the way. That's why pilots nod to each other as they walk down the concourse...they're the only ones who truly understand what it takes to do the job once the cockpit door is closed.
If Joe public fails to understand the tasks and skills involved...it's due to the professionalism of the folks up front that make it look easy. I won't be deterred in my professionalism by Joe's ingorance.
[/ QUOTE ]
I meant the publics job sucks. I agree with you totally which is why this doesnt really bother me much. I just think I'd like flying the big stuff better and dont like the idea of a bunch of little CRAP clogging up the sky. What the hell is so efficient about carrying a few people in a small jet. I would think the seat cost per mile and fuel consumed per person would be insane.
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Hasnt it been shown over and over that the only way to have a profitable mass transit system in the air is the hub and spoke system?
[/ QUOTE ]
Need I remind you that the only profitable airline doesn't have a spoke and hub system?
I won't if there's no need . . .
Hasnt it been shown over and over that the only way to have a profitable mass transit system in the air is the hub and spoke system?
[/ QUOTE ]
Need I remind you that the only profitable airline doesn't have a spoke and hub system?
I won't if there's no need . . .
flyover
New Member
[ QUOTE ]
I just think I'd like flying the big stuff better and dont like the idea of a bunch of little CRAP clogging up the sky. What the hell is so efficient about carrying a few people in a small jet. I would think the seat cost per mile and fuel consumed per person would be insane.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's what is making this market so hot. A couple of points:
The intention will be to stay away from hubs, use satellite ariports. No "clogging" things up. that's not new and is what most charter and corporate traffic does now.
These new jets are significantly cheaper to acquire and operate than current jets (which have been doing quite nicely as a market segment thank you). Operating costs of a mid-size twin for (kind of) jet performance. No doubt their market will be the short routes, smaller cities and satellite airports. Frankly, as a pilot, they look like fun but I wouldn't want to spend much time in large terminal areas or on high altitude jet routes. Put these things behind a 777 and you should be able to get 3 snap rolls in before you can say "Aaaaaagh!"
I just think I'd like flying the big stuff better and dont like the idea of a bunch of little CRAP clogging up the sky. What the hell is so efficient about carrying a few people in a small jet. I would think the seat cost per mile and fuel consumed per person would be insane.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's what is making this market so hot. A couple of points:
The intention will be to stay away from hubs, use satellite ariports. No "clogging" things up. that's not new and is what most charter and corporate traffic does now.
These new jets are significantly cheaper to acquire and operate than current jets (which have been doing quite nicely as a market segment thank you). Operating costs of a mid-size twin for (kind of) jet performance. No doubt their market will be the short routes, smaller cities and satellite airports. Frankly, as a pilot, they look like fun but I wouldn't want to spend much time in large terminal areas or on high altitude jet routes. Put these things behind a 777 and you should be able to get 3 snap rolls in before you can say "Aaaaaagh!"
flyover
New Member
[ QUOTE ]
I'll toss in a couple of more things that reduce operating costs: hull and liability insurance. Probably a lot cheaper on a VLJ than even an RJ.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes. Although I think there are some siginficant barriers to this all working.
Insurers and passengers will likely insist on two pilots. Some cost there along with reducing payload.
The biggest issue (besides whether people will want the service) is the ruggedness of these jets. Some of the business models call for utilization rates that rival the airlines. I have serious doubts as to whether these jets can hold up. And if dispatch reliability is bad, you'll have a hard time getting those customers back. I would think even in the best case there would be a period of a year or two finding the weaknesses in these airframes before they would really be reliable.
I'm a big fan of what they are trying to do. The way any industry thrives is to get continuously more productive. Offer more and more while demanding less and less from the customer. This is another evolutionary step in that direction. Although it could die a quick death, eventually it will happen. Often products come out before their time and serve as part of the learning curve. For example, eventually we will have an economical, reliable SST for widespread use. Concorde will have served it's purpose in getting us there. Some of these early VLJs may suffer that kind of fate.
I'll toss in a couple of more things that reduce operating costs: hull and liability insurance. Probably a lot cheaper on a VLJ than even an RJ.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes. Although I think there are some siginficant barriers to this all working.
Insurers and passengers will likely insist on two pilots. Some cost there along with reducing payload.
The biggest issue (besides whether people will want the service) is the ruggedness of these jets. Some of the business models call for utilization rates that rival the airlines. I have serious doubts as to whether these jets can hold up. And if dispatch reliability is bad, you'll have a hard time getting those customers back. I would think even in the best case there would be a period of a year or two finding the weaknesses in these airframes before they would really be reliable.
I'm a big fan of what they are trying to do. The way any industry thrives is to get continuously more productive. Offer more and more while demanding less and less from the customer. This is another evolutionary step in that direction. Although it could die a quick death, eventually it will happen. Often products come out before their time and serve as part of the learning curve. For example, eventually we will have an economical, reliable SST for widespread use. Concorde will have served it's purpose in getting us there. Some of these early VLJs may suffer that kind of fate.
Toonces
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The public only looks down on pilots because they're job sucks.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hmmm. I still think I have one of the best jobs in the world. Even after pay cuts and pension freezes, my compensation package is better than most of my peers in other professions.
I didn't realize that the public denigrated the piloting profession. Anyway, my job satisfaction does not hinge upon seat 29A envying my aviating prowess. My satisfaction is derived from completing a professional flight...using my experience and knowledge base to expertly complete a flight in the face of all kinds of threats along the way. That's why pilots nod to each other as they walk down the concourse...they're the only ones who truly understand what it takes to do the job once the cockpit door is closed.
If Joe public fails to understand the tasks and skills involved...it's due to the professionalism of the folks up front that make it look easy. I won't be deterred in my professionalism by Joe's ingorance.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The public only looks down on pilots because they're job sucks.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hmmm. I still think I have one of the best jobs in the world. Even after pay cuts and pension freezes, my compensation package is better than most of my peers in other professions.
I didn't realize that the public denigrated the piloting profession. Anyway, my job satisfaction does not hinge upon seat 29A envying my aviating prowess. My satisfaction is derived from completing a professional flight...using my experience and knowledge base to expertly complete a flight in the face of all kinds of threats along the way. That's why pilots nod to each other as they walk down the concourse...they're the only ones who truly understand what it takes to do the job once the cockpit door is closed.
If Joe public fails to understand the tasks and skills involved...it's due to the professionalism of the folks up front that make it look easy. I won't be deterred in my professionalism by Joe's ingorance.
[/ QUOTE ]
Aaron_Kearney
New Member
Even if this thing came to fruition, which honestly I hope it doesn't, I think there would still be a large demand for coast-to-coast and international flights. Imagine having to get an Upper Atmosphere Endorsement so your Boeing 848 can enter the exosphere on your 1:30 flight from NY to Tokyo
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Well, I honestly hope this does at least break the ice on this kind of service. Yeah, there will still be demand for the coast-to-coast service, but that's apples to oranges for this kind of service. These guys are concentrating on a regional service to smaller airports. I'm guessing their target demographic are travelling business people responsible for a region (like a regional supervisor of a shipping company for example). Not only does this generate revenue (which generates jobs) for the aviation industry, it makes said regional supervisor more productive since he can potentially visit more than one site a day. His other option is to drive or spend most of the day sitting in a hub airport only to go somewhere that was 200 miles from his point of departure.
I think rental car companies would see a drop in revenue from this kind of service before the airlines would. If the service catches on, it might even be possible for some airlines to stop service to some of the smaller cities if a VLJ company can continue the service, thus increasing the airlines' profitability (or bringing it closer to breaking even).
Just my $.02 on the management point of view. Now let's see if the pilots get paid any more than CFIs.....
I think rental car companies would see a drop in revenue from this kind of service before the airlines would. If the service catches on, it might even be possible for some airlines to stop service to some of the smaller cities if a VLJ company can continue the service, thus increasing the airlines' profitability (or bringing it closer to breaking even).
Just my $.02 on the management point of view. Now let's see if the pilots get paid any more than CFIs.....