Future Career In 121

L

Lewis170

Active Member
Hello all,

I’m in need of some advice. I’m currently 25 and my stats are as followed.

The Good
4500 TT
2000 TPIC
1200 TPIC-121.
4 year BA 3.7 GPA

I’m a current 121 captain and live in base on the west coast.

The Bad
I do have some skeletons in my closet. I failed my CFI oral three times when I was 18. I rushed and wasn’t prepared. 8 years later I’ve been through 135/121 training, two types various line checks and captain upgrade at my current shop with no problems.

The Ugly
I was arrested for a DUI about a year ago. I quit drinking and I’ve been going through HIMS to better myself etc. I have no excuses for this and to this day I’m embarrassed and disgusted at myself. I didn’t wreck or kill anyone and I’m thankful for that.

The question is, with these “skeletons” can I kiss getting a job at the big three goodbye? Or even a good LCC such as Southwest or JetBlue? I’ve had some Delta guys willing to write a rec, and they know about my background FWIW.
 
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What are the alternatives? Are you thinking about leaving the biz? I think you could find a spot somewhere given time. If you want to stick with flying, I'd keep plugging away and trying to move up. If you can handle night freight maybe an Atlas, Omni, ect. as a stepping stone out of the regionals.
 
The oral failures probably not that big a deal considering your flawless record since then. The biggest issue is the DUI. Were you just arrested, convicted, lawyer involved maybe reduced or dismissed the charge? Etc etc. The fact that it's only one year old is problematic. Good on you for getting into HIMS, and you sound like you're on the right path. IMO, just stick it out at your regional and keep your apps updated to the big 6. It may be a while but at some point the DUI will have been something years ago.
 
Lewis170 said:
Hello all,

I’m in need of some advice. I’m currently 25 and my stats are as followed.

The Good
4500 TT
2000 TPIC
1200 TPIC-121.
4 year BA 3.7 GPA
Click to expand...

Good.

I’m a current 121 captain and live in base on the west coast.
Click to expand...

Good.


The Bad
I do have some skeletons in my closet. I failed my CFI oral three times when I was 18. I rushed and wasn’t prepared. 8 years later I’ve been through 135/121 training, two types various line checks and captain upgrade at my current shop with no problems.
Click to expand...

Failing your CFI is almost a "given". You were 18, just 'own it' and you've always "learned (something) that drove you to your future success"

The Ugly
I was arrested for a DUI about a year ago. I quit drinking and I’ve been going through HIMS to better myself etc. I have no excuses for this and to this day I’m embarrassed and disgusted at myself. I didn’t wreck or kill anyone and I’m thankful for that.
Click to expand...

That's sticky, but the HIMS program showed you accepted responsibility have have made verifiable, stark changes to get back on the right track. Some airlines may not care as much about the event because you've sought help through HIMS, others are going to want a few years of smooth, drama-free aero donut-making.

Disclose, discuss, don't sugarcoat or beat yourself down over it because you, by far, are not the only applicant with some headwinds. Some have found great success, other ones are playing the blame game making misogynistic posts on (assumed to be) private social media without disclosing their challenges.

You seem to have a great attitude about it and I wish you all the best! :)
 
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You never know until you try. If that is your goal then keep moving forward I say. Failed checkrides are no worries, the DUI adds a challenge but it's not insurmountable. Our former HIMS chair had some skeletons in the closet and got on at UAL so never say never. Sounds like you've owned your mistakes so keep it up and add keep adding to your resume. Get after it any way you can, check airman, HIMS volunteer, community stuff, etc.
 
I know of a few guys with similar history that made it to legacy carriers in much worse hiring conditions. I'd guess you'll need more than a year of clean history, but have no idea how much elapsed time will be enough. Probably best to start applying (but like @Derg said, be truthful) and see what happens.
 
As a plain jane RJ captain with a DUI? Probably not much of a future beyond your current carrier and their ilk.

As a RJ captain that's a member of the training department, engaged in union activities and involved in multiple charities/organizations/non-profits et al with a couple years between now and the DUI? Sure, there's definitely opportunity to move on.

Just be honest about the experience, what you learned and how you've changed your life as a result while spending every single free moment you have participating in career-advancing, professional development extra-curricular activities and volunteer service and I think you've got a very promising future. Especially only being 25.
 
FWIW, I know a guy who got hired at Delta who was charged with DUI, fleeing, and resisting arrest. He plead guilty to the DUI, took the driver re-education class, and they dropped the other charges. This was back in 2000 though. He was hired about 2 years after it happened.

As for the CFI bust? I busted my first ATP/type ride. Didn’t stop SJI from hiring me. I’ve got 4 additional types since then.
 
Thanks guys.

I couldn’t get the DUI reduced as the BAC was very high. TBH, my partying was getting out of control and this was a wake up call. I never considered myself an “alcoholic”, but at the rate of drinking 2-3x a week socially, I realized I was at risk for serious issues down the road.
 
DE727UPS said:
What are the alternatives? Are you thinking about leaving the biz? I think you could find a spot somewhere given time. If you want to stick with flying, I'd keep plugging away and trying to move up. If you can handle night freight maybe an Atlas, Omni, ect. as a stepping stone out of the regionals.
Click to expand...


No, I couldn’t see myself getting out of 121. I love flying and I’ve worked hard to get to where I am now. I love my current job, but like all, want to move up to the legacy’s eventually.

I’ve considered an Atlas/Omni type of flying... but I would like to get the most out of my current shop. (More TPIC, check airman etc).
 
Why not jump ship to one of the AA regionals with a flow? At least you'd have that in your back pocket and from what people are saying, you might have to put a few years between the dui and when you could get hired.
 
b3181981 said:
Why not jump ship to one of the AA regionals with a flow? At least you'd have that in your back pocket and from what people are saying, you might have to put a few years between the dui and when you could get hired.
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I’m not sure that would be necessary. He needs a little time between him and the dui. He’s on the right track bolstering his resume in the meantime.
 
b3181981 said:
Why not jump ship to one of the AA regionals with a flow? At least you'd have that in your back pocket and from what people are saying, you might have to put a few years between the dui and when you could get hired.
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A regional captain to a copilot at a regional with an AA flow?

At that point he'd have all of his eggs in one basket, the AA basket.

"Walk me through your decision to leave XYZ, where you were flying as captain, to ABC to start all over again as copilot?"

The answer you would not want to give would be anything resembling "hedging my bets" because any interviewer would break it down into organic matter with catlike quickness and they're going to wonder what he would be running from.

As he builds some distance between the event and the next career move, being as stable and linearly progressive as possible is going to be of tremendous help. I strongly feel that a lateral move would be a grievous error.
 
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b3181981 said:
Why not jump ship to one of the AA regionals with a flow? At least you'd have that in your back pocket and from what people are saying, you might have to put a few years between the dui and when you could get hired.
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Can't imagine this being a good move, it just seems like someone is trying to shed responsibility in the wake of previous issues.

I think OP should stay the course; volunteering with HIMS would be a good thing, since the program worked for you. It's a good resolution to your story
 
At this point I wouldn’t consider any of the AA wholly owns or making a lateral move. I don’t want to bank on the flow thing and as others have said, I’d rather face my problems head on as I’ve created them.

I think of it like this. I could get hired by a AA wholly owned, get off probation, get out of HIMs and start drinking again. Heck I could even get another DUI and eventually I’d have a job at AA.

Or I could try and get on with a major by turning everything into a positive manner, which would benefit me in the long run and potentially helping others.
 
It sounds like you've pretty much figured out most of it yourself and are on the right track. You're still very young by airline standards. We are all human and make mistakes, and the airlines know this. Keep on doing the things that show career progression, and perhaps consider volunteering with, say, the medical committee of your union. You would have the unique perspective of having been through the HIMS program yourself. At worst it might take you an extra year or two to make it to a major/good LCC, but you'll still get there.
 
I am fighting the same headwinds man, I'm no tier 1 at a major by any means. The way people talk about their apps and how they aren't getting calls scares me into a life of regional CA at best. The thing you have going for you is you made the mistake, immediately course corrected and as long as you're finding ways to make yourself stand tall that's commendable. Best of luck!
 
JDean3204 said:
I am fighting the same headwinds man, I'm no tier 1 at a major by any means. The way people talk about their apps and how they aren't getting calls scares me into a life of regional CA at best. The thing you have going for you is you made the mistake, immediately course corrected and as long as you're finding ways to make yourself stand tall that's commendable. Best of luck!
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It scares me too. I just hope the computer doesn’t throw away my app without a chance to explain the situation, what I did to improve etc.
 
Lewis170 said:
It scares me too. I just hope the computer doesn’t throw away my app without a chance to explain the situation, what I did to improve etc.
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If you could get one of the Delta guys to officially recommend you (they should know what this entails), as opposed to just writing a LOR, that is supposed to trigger a manual review of your app, where normally it might not get through a computer filter. It can only be done once a year though. Best of luck!
 
JDean3204 said:
I am fighting the same headwinds man, I'm no tier 1 at a major by any means. The way people talk about their apps and how they aren't getting calls scares me into a life of regional CA at best. The thing you have going for you is you made the mistake, immediately course corrected and as long as you're finding ways to make yourself stand tall that's commendable. Best of luck!
Click to expand...

Don't worry about other peoples' apps and who is or isn't getting called. People tend to talk themselves up, but the reality is you have no idea what each person's background or story is.
 
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