Furlough Question/Advice

meyers9163

Well-Known Member
So obviously we all know September 10th I will be furloughed from PSA. Right now I've been looking at various roads I can take. However none of which have involved flying for the time being. I just did some quick math and can manage to live on and pay my bills with roughly 1500. However I would like to pay off some debt as well while I can. Anyways I've talked to several different people about this topic. I am looking at jobs where I know I can make 35k on up right now. Some of which may turn into a long term job if needed based on the recall. Also I'm looking into doing some part time CFI stuff on the side. Right now I sit at about 900TT/600ME and 400SIC. Dually qualified in the CRJ200/700. However I've caught some grief from friends for not pursuing flying due to my, "low time." I can see their point but right now with the state of the industry I guess I just thought it made sense to get a guarantee income (salary job) as opposed to possibly doing some flying as a CFI in Indiana during the fall and winter. Again I plan on trying to do SOME part time instruction just not full time. Advice would be great. I know I just ranted but looking for advice as to if I am making a mistake by looking at non flying jobs while on furlough instead of pursuing a flying job.
 

nkoenig

New Member
If I was in your shoes I'd find the highest paying non-aviation job I could and CFI on weekends. I would guess that it will be tough to find a full time CFI job at this point. Current instructors have no where to go so I'm sure that movement will slow or halt.
 

Clocks

Well-Known Member
I started my non-aviation job today (part time until I get furloughed 10/1). I got to where I wanted to be in the airline industry, I didn't enjoy being a CFI, I have a FO position to go back to unless XJT declares bankruptcy. So the heck with it, I'm waiting out my furlough at a desk making 4th year FO pay-equivalent, hopefully paying down some debt before I go back.

They aren't going to recall based on TT. Go do what you enjoy or what can help you financially (or maybe both) until you get your old job back. I'd tell my flying friends if they want to fly steep turns in a 152 for 1000 hours, more power to them.
 

jtrain609

Uniting the black vote.
You know, it's funny.

All the cats down at the regional level tell me, "DON'T QUIT NOW! YOU CAN'T QUIT FLYING! OH NOS!!!! IF YOU LEAVE...WELL DON'T LEAVE!!!!" All of the cats I've run into at mainline have told me, "Listen kid, when you get furloughed, move on with your life as if they'll never call you back, as if you'll never get another job in aviation ever again, because you might not. If you move on and you're happy, stick with it."

Something to think about.
 

BobDDuck

Island Bus Driver
Psst... at least one of the dudes who told Meyers to get a flying job flies for a major.
 

FlyingSig

Well-Known Member
"Listen kid, when you get furloughed, move on with your life as if they'll never call you back, as if you'll never get another job in aviation ever again, because you might not. If you move on and you're happy, stick with it."

Something to think about.
I agree with the first part of the statement about treating it like they're never going to call back, but as for the part about never getting another job in aviation... come on, that's just stupid.

Get a job that you enjoy. If it's flying, great, if it's something else, good on that too... as long as you like going to work... because at the end of the day, that's all you're doing right now, is going to work.

Getting furloughed is annoying because you have to go find a job...but guess what, that's not that hard. Does everybody have their own circumstances that prevent taking certain jobs? Of course. But you can't tell me that a college educated individual who has been passing checkrides to stay employed can't come up with a plan to pay the bills and still enjoy going to work. Believe it or not, there are other jobs in aviation other pilot that are kinda interesting.

Rant off.... just my 2 cents from having been furloughed for 3 years and 2 months myself.
 

dc3flyer

Well-Known Member
I don't really want to say it, because I know there are many here in the situation, but I think finding a pilot job (other than as a CFI) is going to be pretty hard for the folks that went to the airlines with 300 or 500 hours. There are people hiring right now in the corporate/charter/fractional world, but they want to see some PIC time.

With the times you put down meyers, I can only assume you have at most 500 PIC, probably more like 400. I think if you want a career in aviation in the future, you are going to have to take a pilot job you may not want to build that PIC time. Fortunately you have proven you can get a type and you already have some turbine time.

All this being said considering the possibility of not being called back anytime soon.
 

Clocks

Well-Known Member
I don't really want to say it, because I know there are many here in the situation, but I think finding a pilot job (other than as a CFI) is going to be pretty hard for the folks that went to the airlines with 300 or 500 hours. There are people hiring right now in the corporate/charter/fractional world, but they want to see some PIC time.
I have ~800TT right now. If I had skipped going to XJET I might have 1100TT if I had kept working 16 hour days as a CFI. Please share what corporate/charter/fractional companies I would have been competative with today if I had chosen that route instead.

I understand the point you're making. But the mins (let alone competitive times) for those corporate/charter/fractional gigs are high enough that they're out of reach of anyone who went to a regional during the second half of last year. Whether they had 250 hours or 1000, they still aren't competitive anywhere. I have a hard time understanding the logic behind "if only the 250 wonder kid had stayed a CFI instead of going to the regional, he'd have so many more job options now". Do the math. What jobs? Now if you want to discuss the new pilot getting better experience or knowledge by being a CFI, by all means. But you're talking about not being able to find a corporate/charter/fractional job because they went to a regional.
 

Ralgha

Well-Known Member
I have ~800TT right now. If I had skipped going to XJET I might have 1100TT if I had kept working 16 hour days as a CFI. Please share what corporate/charter/fractional companies I would have been competative with today if I had chosen that route instead.

I understand the point you're making. But the mins (let alone competitive times) for those corporate/charter/fractional gigs are high enough that they're out of reach of anyone who went to a regional during the second half of last year. Whether they had 250 hours or 1000, they still aren't competitive anywhere. I have a hard time understanding the logic behind "if only the 250 wonder kid had stayed a CFI instead of going to the regional, he'd have so many more job options now". Do the math. What jobs? Now if you want to discuss the new pilot getting better experience or knowledge by being a CFI, by all means. But you're talking about not being able to find a corporate/charter/fractional job because they went to a regional.
It's not about the total time, it's about the PIC time. You're only thinking about the big corporate jobs, there are many small corporate jobs that don't require the "high" minimums, but they do require a significant amount of PIC time. Had you instructed up to 1300 hours, nearly all of that would be PIC time, certainly more than 1000 (at least it should be). You'll find that 1000 hours is a popular minimum time requirement for many different types of time.
 

EDUC8-or

Well-Known Member
I know I sent you a PM, is there any way you can work at the job you were telling me about and instruct on the side?
 

ZapBrannigan

Old School
Corporate is a very different world than airline. They're generally not looking to just fill a seat with an FAA certified pilot. They're looking for someone that the executives can come to know and to trust.

Generally speaking minimums for reputable corporate jobs (Fortune 500) have minimums that are on-par with a Major Airline job. There are, of course, exceptions for those who are have the gift of networking.

For any pilot who has been furloughed with less than a few thousand hours TT, my suggestion (that and $3 might get you a cup of Starbucks) would be to go back to the mid-1990s philosophy.

Instruct from XXX - 1200TT (as much ME as possible)
Freight (AirNet, RamAir, or similar)

and then, if you're still interested in the commuters, reapply when appropriate.

There is no reason at all why someone could not make the step from a turbine-powered piece of equipment at AirNet, Amflight, etc. to a major, a fractional, or a Corporate operator.

<-- would personally avoid part 135 as a career aspiration unless it was a HECK of a good operator. Once you have a family and kids you'll want a set schedule, days off, etc.
 

dc3flyer

Well-Known Member
I have ~800TT right now. If I had skipped going to XJET I might have 1100TT if I had kept working 16 hour days as a CFI. Please share what corporate/charter/fractional companies I would have been competative with today if I had chosen that route instead.

I understand the point you're making. But the mins (let alone competitive times) for those corporate/charter/fractional gigs are high enough that they're out of reach of anyone who went to a regional during the second half of last year. Whether they had 250 hours or 1000, they still aren't competitive anywhere. I have a hard time understanding the logic behind "if only the 250 wonder kid had stayed a CFI instead of going to the regional, he'd have so many more job options now". Do the math. What jobs? Now if you want to discuss the new pilot getting better experience or knowledge by being a CFI, by all means. But you're talking about not being able to find a corporate/charter/fractional job because they went to a regional.
Ralgha prettty much answered your comment for me. I don't think there is, or was, anything wrong with young pilots (in respect of flight time) taking advantage of the hiring boom the regional airlines had. BUT, I have friends that went to the airlines with 800 TT or less, and have been there for a year or two, and still have less than 1000 PIC. I was just saying that without the PIC time, it will be harder to find a job in todays market outside the airlines. Like I said before, someone that is in that situation will be sitting pretty if they go back to instructing, or even traffic or mapping, once they get some PIC time because they have already proven the skills to get qualified in and fly a large turbine airplane. It just may take doing what you may now consider a less than perfect flying job for a while.
 

MQAAord

Scheherazade
Staff member
If you get furloughed, find something else to do!

There's always work out there to do, you just have to find it.

My advice is to not close your mind to anything while you're furloughed. I recommend not saying "I'll never work a job that's not flying!", and on the flip side, I also recommend not saying "I'll never fly a plane again!" Perhaps a great flying gig will come your way, perhaps you'll find a new interest/job you never knew was out there! Keep your mind, options and eyes wide open, you never know what is going to present itself or in what way it'll be there.

Our buddy from Bill's TWA newhire class who got furloughed from AA has a wife and 4 kids think about. When he first got furloughed, he traveled the midwest with his brother-in-law in an RV selling wedding dresses. It was different, but it paid the bills. Then he got a corporate job flying a Citation. Again, something different than what he'd known, but he gave it a chance and it was a good thing. Then the opportunity presented itself for him to go to work for JALways flying 747s across the Pacific. Certainly something he hadn't envisioned a few years ago, but it has really worked out VERY well for him! He still says he'll go back to AA when recalled, but he's got a few years before that's even a consideration......
 

granlistillo

Well-Known Member
. Right now I sit at about 900TT/600ME and 400SIC. Dually qualified in the CRJ200/700.
1. You are high on the recall list and those numbers are pretty good IMO (compared to if you didnt make the jump last fall/winter).
2. Youve proven you can get through training and fly the line even if you dont want to come back to PSA.
3. I would flight instruct at least part time until you are recalled. You've got he degree right? I think maybe substitute teaching might be good, given your youth group leadership experience. You can make pretty decent money and have 100% of control of your schedule.
4. Drawing unemployment while you look for a gig is not dishonorable.

Hang in there Paul, there will be some movement.
 

TheOneMarine

Well-Known Member
Like I've been telling you man, we'll find something else. Who knows, we might make more doing it and not even bother coming back. Make enough and we'll buy our own damn plane :D.If we were stupid, well we would have a problem, but I'm not and neither are you. We'll survive.
 

meyers9163

Well-Known Member
I know I sent you a PM, is there any way you can work at the job you were telling me about and instruct on the side?
Got the PM... and yes there's a great chance I could do one of those jobs I told you about and work part time as a CFI. That's really the thing I'm looking at right now. My biggest thing is I need a secure income. Thus a non aviation job. I know I can go CFI full time but what's secure about that, especially in the winter in Indiana.... :) Thanks for the advice and keep it comming. I think its good for myself and also the others on here.
 

KLB

Well-Known Member
I have ~800TT right now. If I had skipped going to XJET I might have 1100TT if I had kept working 16 hour days as a CFI. Please share what corporate/charter/fractional companies I would have been competative with today if I had chosen that route instead.

I understand the point you're making. But the mins (let alone competitive times) for those corporate/charter/fractional gigs are high enough that they're out of reach of anyone who went to a regional during the second half of last year. Whether they had 250 hours or 1000, they still aren't competitive anywhere. I have a hard time understanding the logic behind "if only the 250 wonder kid had stayed a CFI instead of going to the regional, he'd have so many more job options now". Do the math. What jobs? Now if you want to discuss the new pilot getting better experience or knowledge by being a CFI, by all means. But you're talking about not being able to find a corporate/charter/fractional job because they went to a regional.
One of my best friends flight instructed for a school that also did 135 on demand charter in a piper chieftan. She did this until she had 1600 and some odd hours. She then interviewed and was hired to fly right seat in a Lear 35. She may only fly once or twice a week maybe, but starting pay was around 44 grand. They may also PIC her during her next recurrent event.

Another one of my buddies (also a JC lurker!) flight instructed (I flight instructed at the same place) until he had around 2300TT. Many of the students at the flight school were from the Republic of Maldives (= paradise!) ,were going back to their country, and being hired as FO's for an airline that has Twin Otters on floats that do island hops. They were severly short on Capatains. This instructor got an interview with the company for a captains position and he went down to Florida a few weeks before his interview and got his float plane rating. Well as you may have figured out, he was hired! I think starting pay is the upper 50's to low 60's. He is the second instructor from this flight school to be hired over there. Of course this company does of the goodies...free housing transportation and etc... He is committed to a year contract though. They fly between 70 and 100hrs a month.


I have another buddy who was hired at the same small fractional company that RyanMcG was recently hired onto. He had around 1500hrs when he first was hired there. He flies right seat in a westwind, astra, and excel.


There are many oppourtunities like this out there. It's one of those deals of being in the right place at the right time. You just have to be patient.
 
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