H46Bubba
Well-Known Member
He's a f'n joke! He's just a puppet of DL management, just like he was at Comair!
Funny Conference calls
- Thread starter jynxyjoe
- Start date
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Minus the Delta "wholly owned" travel benefits from what I hear. Have they said what will happen with the fences and the realignment bid?
PhilosopherPilot
Well-Known Member
They used to print money, until the majors realized they could play them all against each other and reduce the fees for departure. So the business model is adjusting to the new reality, and some are going to go out of business because of it.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Oh I forgot long ago what it was like to have good travel benefits, I miss NWA. Anyhow the fences have to come down or there is no way this company continues to operate. So they will come down.
Can't. Wait to hear how attrition is going for sept/oct.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
jynxyjoe said:
Mind explaining the dynamics of the fences and how they are contributing to the poor company position? Are training costs out of control? Are the fences limiting the movement of personnel?
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Right now every time someone hops the fence they go thrrough inital. I'm typing on phone so thisll be short and poorly spelled. Simply put with the attrition level we have andthe 900 coming on line when the 717s arrive at delta, its cheaper to ahut us down again than to train 30-70% of the list
I'm not in management my numbers may be off. Delta knew what they were getting into but the roi will probably be 2016 if I was a betting man, only if the fences were down by november.
Operational fences, Phildos legacy.
I'm not in management my numbers may be off. Delta knew what they were getting into but the roi will probably be 2016 if I was a betting man, only if the fences were down by november.
Operational fences, Phildos legacy.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
jynxyjoe said:
Gotcha, kinda.
Thanks Baller.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Not a month went by at 9E that I didn't mutter the words "I miss Northwest."
So, basically, the fences were there.....unless they didn't need them, and they can disregard anything Bloch said. To give a quick run-down on the fences, there were staffing levels set for the -200, -900 and the Q400 on the CA side. FOs could more or less move between them with not near as many restrictions. The staffing levels had to be above X amount of pre-merger pilots for that airframe (maybe it was a percentage, my mind has blocked a lot of it out as a coping mechanism). For example, there was a set number of pre-merger XJ guys on the -900 and the same for 9E guys on the -200. If it went above that percentage/number, then guys from the other two lists could bid into that position. I don't recall more than a handful of guys bidding from 9E -200 CA to XJ -900 CA. I could have been a lineholder in MEM on the -900, but I couldn't bid across the fence.
My major problem with it was the staffing levels for the -200 were set at a realistic level, which 9E had never had in their entire existance. Thus, Colgan and XJ guys could bid -200 CA without issue, but Pinnacle CAs couldn't bid the -900 or Q400 except in VERY rare and limited circumstances since they were more or less at decent staffing levels from the get go. What wound up happening is a LOT of Pinnacle guys kept either a) getting pushed further and further back as XJ and Colgan guys bid over for better QoL OR saw their upgrades go from months to years. Meanwhile, things were protected on the XJ and Colgan side (well, Colgan side not so much since they got hosed and parked all the airframes). Fences were supposed to be up for 5 years. If the fences were intact, I would be looking at either bidding to DTW or being kicked back to the right seat on the -900 if I were still there. No fences? I could probably easily hold -900 CA in JFK with my relative seniority to XJ guys in the merger. You heard a lot of XJ guys talking about how 9E guys jumped them, but up until now (I guess), it didn't matter since none of those 9E guys could take advantage of the merged list seniority numbers.
So, basically, the fences were there.....unless they didn't need them, and they can disregard anything Bloch said. To give a quick run-down on the fences, there were staffing levels set for the -200, -900 and the Q400 on the CA side. FOs could more or less move between them with not near as many restrictions. The staffing levels had to be above X amount of pre-merger pilots for that airframe (maybe it was a percentage, my mind has blocked a lot of it out as a coping mechanism). For example, there was a set number of pre-merger XJ guys on the -900 and the same for 9E guys on the -200. If it went above that percentage/number, then guys from the other two lists could bid into that position. I don't recall more than a handful of guys bidding from 9E -200 CA to XJ -900 CA. I could have been a lineholder in MEM on the -900, but I couldn't bid across the fence.
My major problem with it was the staffing levels for the -200 were set at a realistic level, which 9E had never had in their entire existance. Thus, Colgan and XJ guys could bid -200 CA without issue, but Pinnacle CAs couldn't bid the -900 or Q400 except in VERY rare and limited circumstances since they were more or less at decent staffing levels from the get go. What wound up happening is a LOT of Pinnacle guys kept either a) getting pushed further and further back as XJ and Colgan guys bid over for better QoL OR saw their upgrades go from months to years. Meanwhile, things were protected on the XJ and Colgan side (well, Colgan side not so much since they got hosed and parked all the airframes). Fences were supposed to be up for 5 years. If the fences were intact, I would be looking at either bidding to DTW or being kicked back to the right seat on the -900 if I were still there. No fences? I could probably easily hold -900 CA in JFK with my relative seniority to XJ guys in the merger. You heard a lot of XJ guys talking about how 9E guys jumped them, but up until now (I guess), it didn't matter since none of those 9E guys could take advantage of the merged list seniority numbers.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
You're talking Quotas or "fences" from Bloch. We're trying to get people to refer to Bloch's fences as Quotas and the Phildo operational fences as fences
Bloch is still in effect. Will be until ~3 years from now.
The company is trying to get rid of the operational fences created by PhillyD the Dildo and being enforced by the FAA. Phildo did an awesome job of hog tying us from profitability even years after his ouster.
I might add the reason that you'd be able to "hold" 900 CA on the -900 is only because our few 02-04 hires who were on the -900 (and won't be much longer) got shafted by 4 years or so DOH. Anyway, Colgan and Pinnacle guys can take advantage of their seniority number after Bloch's quotas are met and if (and only if) they can hold the left over spots due to longevity on the SLI. At least that's what I gleam from the smart guys (not John Hunter).
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SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
I can't believe the dummies in MEM thought they could short course all the Mesaba people.
Of course, had they done this correctly, the fence would have been dropped before the ISL came out.
Finally, when it was realized that we weren't going to keep Colgan, and we were losing Pinnacle 200s, we should have put everything on the Mesaba certificate. Insurance premiums are probably cheaper with their safety record.
What a mess. Totally unprepared from the start, and never got a plan together.
Of course, had they done this correctly, the fence would have been dropped before the ISL came out.
Finally, when it was realized that we weren't going to keep Colgan, and we were losing Pinnacle 200s, we should have put everything on the Mesaba certificate. Insurance premiums are probably cheaper with their safety record.
What a mess. Totally unprepared from the start, and never got a plan together.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
I'm aware and that's why I phrased it the way I did. Sorry the screw job hatchet is now starting to swing the other way......
jynxyjoe
Queso King
..
Eh I must be misreading something, wouldnt be my first time though. Anyway I apologize if I simply echoed your point. Anyhow I agree I'm sorry a lot of guys are going to get boinked from this fleet shrink.