Frontier and Avelo now also asking for hand outs

derg said:
Was having some wine-infused chats with our friend from Zurich and he said just that.

People gawk at the taxes in Switzerland, but if you look at the overall package of what he gets in terms of pension, healthcare, education and public services, we’re getting screwed here in the US.

“You just… went to college to study engineering… for nothing?”
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People throw around "fiscal conservative" a lot and other identifiers to separate themselves from MAGA as well as Democrats as well as full-on DSA. I think my own political evolution could be summed up in "value and competence seeking". I am non-negotiable about quality. Show me the most efficient way to purchase that quality for the lowest price and I don't care if the services are paid via taxes or private enterprise.
 
knot4u said:
And how effective is your anger? Does it accomplish anything or is it wasted energy? You're not angry, you shout because you feel satiated after voicing dissatisfaction but it accomplishes nothing. Or you work for one of the bottom three and you haven't heard back from a major airline. If a low cost carrier is operating on margins so thin that a rise in the cost of fuel literally puts them out of business after a month they're not running a solid business plan. Why isn't Delta asking for a handout?
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I think the frustration for many is the unnecessary reason why fuel prices are higher. The problem was self-induced is the reason why many are angry. COVID shutdowns are similar. However, the science of reducing viral spread versus on a whim start a war are two different things. I think it’s unfair to start artificial hardships and then point the finger at the little guys to say it’s their fault they can’t keep up with the admins BS.

Sure, there’s accountability and good business sense but this entire era is like a pin ball table. Only the behemoths can survive the turmoil. That’s just not sustainable.
 
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nocturnalaviator said:
I think the frustration for many is the unnecessary reason why fuel prices are higher. The problem was self-induced is the reason why many are angry. COVID shutdowns are similar. However, the science of reducing viral spread versus on a whim start a war are two different things. I think it’s unfair to start artificial hardships and then point the finger at the little guys to say it’s their fault they can’t keep up with the admins BS.

Sure, there’s accountability and good business sense but this entire era is like a pin ball table. Only the behemoths can survive the turmoil. That’s just not sustainable.
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My anger regarding fuel prices started long before the latest debacle, I grew up in SoCal and it was normal to pay double compared to the rest of the country for gas. And it's getting worse there currently, not only because of the current cost of a global commodity, but because the refineries there can't actually make any money because of increasing regulation they're just shutting down. CA has a huge oil reserve beneath it that the state government will not allow anyone to access and there are no pipelines into CA so the overwhelming majority of the crude oil comes in on ships. The problem is now the refineries are shutting down so more and more of the refined fuels are being imported by ship. But wait it gets worse, CA requires a special blend of fuel that costs more to refine in other countries and then get shipped in from across the Pacific Ocean. So even getting the fuel is really expensive and then the customer sees an additional $2/gal in state and local taxes at the pump and the roads suck, there's trash everywhere and no one knows where all of the tax money goes. All of this in a state that sits on top of a huge oil field. Don't cry to me about fuel prices, it was just another reason I left what I consider my home state.
 
knot4u said:
My anger regarding fuel prices started long before the latest debacle, I grew up in SoCal and it was normal to pay double compared to the rest of the country for gas. And it's getting worse there currently, not only because of the current cost of a global commodity, but because the refineries there can't actually make any money because of increasing regulation they're just shutting down. CA has a huge oil reserve beneath it that the state government will not allow anyone to access and there are no pipelines into CA so the overwhelming majority of the crude oil comes in on ships. The problem is now the refineries are shutting down so more and more of the refined fuels are being imported by ship. But wait it gets worse, CA requires a special blend of fuel that costs more to refine in other countries and then get shipped in from across the Pacific Ocean. So even getting the fuel is really expensive and then the customer sees an additional $2/gal in state and local taxes at the pump and the roads suck, there's trash everywhere and no one knows where all of the tax money goes. All of this in a state that sits on top of a huge oil field. Don't cry to me about fuel prices, it was just another reason I left what I consider my home state.
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The extent that your worldview and your view of others is shaped by grievances about California - to the point that others should care even - is weird. I mean, what is the point of moving to Texas if you're still looking back at CA and it pisses you off? I spent 21 years in KC - built a biz, very involved in the community/city, met my wife and had a daughter, close friends - and the first chance I got to come home I took. And haven't even been back to visit. I didn't lose anything there, no need to spend a lot of thought on it.
 
WacoFan said:
The extent that your worldview and your view of others is shaped by grievances about California - to the point that others should care even - is weird. I mean, what is the point of moving to Texas if you're still looking back at CA and it pisses you off? I spent 21 years in KC - built a biz, very involved in the community/city, met my wife and had a daughter, close friends - and the first chance I got to come home I took. And haven't even been back to visit. I didn't lose anything there, no need to spend a lot of thought on it.
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CA doesn't currently anger me. Hearing people gripe about fuel prices in other parts of the country will get me grumpy when the price they consider offensive would've felt like a discount to me not long ago. I'll refer to CA and it's foibles because it's a blue state and it's failing, as CA goes the country follows, I lived there for almost five decades and I'm just trying to warn people about it. That state is F'd if it continues down it's current path, that's why I left. It's like watching a friends kid descend into a drug addiction and the parents keep saying he hasn't hit rock bottom yet after they find drugs and needles in the kids nightstand. I guess waiting for a flatline is the rock bottom. I'm not angry at CA, I just don't want that rot to spread. CA will continue to be a beautiful place that sucks to live in, the leftists can't change the topography.
 
WacoFan said:
The extent that your worldview and your view of others is shaped by grievances about California - to the point that others should care even - is weird. I mean, what is the point of moving to Texas if you're still looking back at CA and it pisses you off? I spent 21 years in KC - built a biz, very involved in the community/city, met my wife and had a daughter, close friends - and the first chance I got to come home I took. And haven't even been back to visit. I didn't lose anything there, no need to spend a lot of thought on it.
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I lived in Florida which is apparently some shining city on the Ayn Rand hill, thought it sucked and left.

Didn’t think much about it because I love Arizona.

But I’m also sane. :)
 
I think there is a fair bit of "grass is greener" going on when comparing healthcare across countries. Europe has vary many styles of "universal" health care with some countries still using insurance systems etc. I dont think we really appreciate what having to wait for procedures really means. For general care any one of us could get seen by a doctor or NP today just about anywhere. Our system is Fd up, but so are others and im not sure our system is more Fd up than theirs.
 
knot4u said:
My anger regarding fuel prices started long before the latest debacle, I grew up in SoCal and it was normal to pay double compared to the rest of the country for gas. And it's getting worse there currently, not only because of the current cost of a global commodity, but because the refineries there can't actually make any money because of increasing regulation they're just shutting down. CA has a huge oil reserve beneath it that the state government will not allow anyone to access and there are no pipelines into CA so the overwhelming majority of the crude oil comes in on ships. The problem is now the refineries are shutting down so more and more of the refined fuels are being imported by ship. But wait it gets worse, CA requires a special blend of fuel that costs more to refine in other countries and then get shipped in from across the Pacific Ocean. So even getting the fuel is really expensive and then the customer sees an additional $2/gal in state and local taxes at the pump and the roads suck, there's trash everywhere and no one knows where all of the tax money goes. All of this in a state that sits on top of a huge oil field. Don't cry to me about fuel prices, it was just another reason I left what I consider my home state.
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I get it, you dislike California and the direction the state has been going. California is also propping up and supporting 13.8% of the US economy, nearly double that of Texas. However, I wasn’t commenting to argue over the validity of the broken 50 states. I will still hold true the fact that all of this has been caused by one persons decision to act “tough” in a fight they and their children will never fight. Spirit despite all of their problems internally was just the first to suffer on this accelerated timeline to liquidation. Rationalizing versus calling out poor decision-making and calling it “4-D chess” is making us worse off.
 
NovemberEcho said:
When you compare healthcare costs to results with pretty much every other developed nation our system is indeed incredibly •ed up.
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Preach.

I made the mistake of breaking out a pen and paper and attempting to argue with our Swiss friend once.

"Hot damn, I'm paying a lot of money for literally nothing here in the US"
 
derg said:
Preach.

I made the mistake of breaking out a pen and paper and attempting to argue with our Swiss friend once.

"Hot damn, I'm paying a lot of money for literally nothing here in the US"
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I think Europe varies quite a bit between countries and range from full on "universal" and and requirements to buy insurance etc... From what I am seeing it looks like Swiss is alot like what we tried to initiate with "Obamacare", with private insurance mandates etc.. It appears Swiss healthcare is really where we should be heading and seems like a more realistic direction (and perhaps more preferred) than the UK system. I hear there is a new plan coming out in "two weeks" :bounce: .
 
derg said:
Preach.

I made the mistake of breaking out a pen and paper and attempting to argue with our Swiss friend once.

"Hot damn, I'm paying a lot of money for literally nothing here in the US"
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In the US we pay a lot of money for health insurance for the express purpose of… paying a lot of money for medical care. We don’t so much pay for care as we pay for a discount program. Funny enough, the pay up front cash cost often works out to the same or less than the cost of “insurance plus out of pocket” when you consider the premiums.

And this is coming from someone who has for the last two years running hit their deductible and in-network out of pocket max. I’m one office visit away from hitting my deductible and will by August this year hit both my in and out of network out of pocket max!
 
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