Frontier Airlines Files for Chapter 11
- Thread starter mpenguin1
- Start date
Kingairer
'Tiger Team' Member
You're next
Velocipede
New Member
We've been battling LUV for YEARS. Of course, they may just assimilate us...They're becoming the Borg of the airline world.
tonyw
Well-Known Member
Well, there is the fact that Southwest's founder said they cannot provide the United States with the air transport system we need here working against that.
And they can't.
PCL, didn't I tell you someone would be calling you a communist sooner or later?
Clearly, people don't understand what that means or they would never say re-regulating the airline industry is communism. Folks, what we're talking about is the government setting prices. That's it. Private companies would still provide the services and private citizens would pay for them.
I only flew a couple of times before the airlines were deregulated but my parents did a lot of traveling before then and they said the experience was much better.
I think that's true. If you can't compete on price anymore, now you've got to distinguish yourself somehow and service is one of the ways to do it.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Tony, if you polled ten Americans at random and asked them to define communism or socialism, I doubt more than one or two of them would be able to actually give you an accurate definition. It's pathetic. Anytime someone hears a policy proposal they don't like, they just scream "communist!"
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
From the Honolulu Star-Bulletin:
Staggering airlines have increased pressure to abandon deregulation of the airlines enacted three decades ago. The collapse of Aloha Airlines and last week's declaration of bankruptcy by Frontier Airlines indicate a fresh look should be given to regulating airlines serving rural and remote areas.
Congress enacted the Airline Deregulation Act in 1978, ending federal control of commercial aviation and subjecting air fares and flight schedules to the forces of supply and demand. In a hearing last week before the U.S. Senate Commerce Committee, David Banmiller, Aloha's chief executive, said deregulation has been proved to be potentially harmful in achieving stable air serve for small regional markets such as Hawaii.
Inouye said he plans to conduct hearings on possible re-regulation of airlines, and Rep. Mazie Hirono said the issue of airline regulation has drawn interest. Indeed, Rep. James Oberstar, D-Minn., chairman of the House Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure, warned that pressure to re-regulate the industry is mounting in Congress.
The pressure results not only from the demise of Aloha, ATA , Skyway and Skybus and the Frontier bankruptcy but by American Airlines canceling more than 1,000 flights, stranding 100,000 passengers, while wiring in airplanes was fixed. Oberstar suggests that the wiring problems were a result of previous laxity in regulation by the Federal Aviation Administration.
When Banmiller complained to the federal Department of Transportation about predatory pricing, he said he was told, "We'll look into it." That lack of response is a sign that regulation is needed in some circumstances, if not across the industry. Rural and remote areas cannot depend on free enterprise to assure adequate service, and congressional hearings should result in a method of addressing the problem.
Staggering airlines have increased pressure to abandon deregulation of the airlines enacted three decades ago. The collapse of Aloha Airlines and last week's declaration of bankruptcy by Frontier Airlines indicate a fresh look should be given to regulating airlines serving rural and remote areas.
Congress enacted the Airline Deregulation Act in 1978, ending federal control of commercial aviation and subjecting air fares and flight schedules to the forces of supply and demand. In a hearing last week before the U.S. Senate Commerce Committee, David Banmiller, Aloha's chief executive, said deregulation has been proved to be potentially harmful in achieving stable air serve for small regional markets such as Hawaii.
Inouye said he plans to conduct hearings on possible re-regulation of airlines, and Rep. Mazie Hirono said the issue of airline regulation has drawn interest. Indeed, Rep. James Oberstar, D-Minn., chairman of the House Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure, warned that pressure to re-regulate the industry is mounting in Congress.
The pressure results not only from the demise of Aloha, ATA , Skyway and Skybus and the Frontier bankruptcy but by American Airlines canceling more than 1,000 flights, stranding 100,000 passengers, while wiring in airplanes was fixed. Oberstar suggests that the wiring problems were a result of previous laxity in regulation by the Federal Aviation Administration.
When Banmiller complained to the federal Department of Transportation about predatory pricing, he said he was told, "We'll look into it." That lack of response is a sign that regulation is needed in some circumstances, if not across the industry. Rural and remote areas cannot depend on free enterprise to assure adequate service, and congressional hearings should result in a method of addressing the problem.
WestIndian425
Well-Known Member
Re: Frontier files Ch.11
Sorry, guys, I've been on duty and missed quite a few posts...
I'm understanding your point, Velo, but if memory serves me correctly, prior to deregulation, the airlines weren't just told how much to charge the paying customer, but also where to fly. I can see the benefit in terms of the wages, but to me (and I'm just pondering here), I cannot see how that would increase jobs.
In essence, the push for open skies on the international front has that "deregulation" feel to it. Should this concept then be also abandoned?
On a lighter side, I'm not sure re-regulating the industry would help small/marginal markets, especially those already termed EAS. I find it hard to believe that Merced will start seeing E190's and Modesto will see 737's or A32X's.
Sorry, guys, I've been on duty and missed quite a few posts...
I'm understanding your point, Velo, but if memory serves me correctly, prior to deregulation, the airlines weren't just told how much to charge the paying customer, but also where to fly. I can see the benefit in terms of the wages, but to me (and I'm just pondering here), I cannot see how that would increase jobs.
In essence, the push for open skies on the international front has that "deregulation" feel to it. Should this concept then be also abandoned?
On a lighter side, I'm not sure re-regulating the industry would help small/marginal markets, especially those already termed EAS. I find it hard to believe that Merced will start seeing E190's and Modesto will see 737's or A32X's.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Re: Frontier files Ch.11
The airlines would be given route authority based on demand. As it stands right now, airlines are at record load factors and denied boardings due to oversold flights are at an all-time high. If anything, a new CAB would likely request more flights to many markets to reduce the number of denied boardings. That's the great thing about the CAB: it was there to help the airlines stay stable, but also to maintain quality for the consumer. After the CAB was gone, nothing was there to help maintain quality of air travel. The airlines just kept getting worse and worse to reduce costs.
Absolutely! Open skies is a nightmare. ALPA is using every bit of their resources to fight it off for as long as possible. A true open skies agreement would mean the end of thousands upon thousands of US pilot jobs.
Many markets have completely lost airline service, whereas they used to receive 727 service in the 70s under the CAB. It's unlikely that Youngstown, OH would see a 727 again, but they would at least get a Saab or RJ. And the best thing is that you wouldn't see ExpressJet flying from IAH to ATL, it would be replaced by a real mainline airplane with more mainline jobs.
The airlines would be given route authority based on demand. As it stands right now, airlines are at record load factors and denied boardings due to oversold flights are at an all-time high. If anything, a new CAB would likely request more flights to many markets to reduce the number of denied boardings. That's the great thing about the CAB: it was there to help the airlines stay stable, but also to maintain quality for the consumer. After the CAB was gone, nothing was there to help maintain quality of air travel. The airlines just kept getting worse and worse to reduce costs.
Absolutely! Open skies is a nightmare. ALPA is using every bit of their resources to fight it off for as long as possible. A true open skies agreement would mean the end of thousands upon thousands of US pilot jobs.
Many markets have completely lost airline service, whereas they used to receive 727 service in the 70s under the CAB. It's unlikely that Youngstown, OH would see a 727 again, but they would at least get a Saab or RJ. And the best thing is that you wouldn't see ExpressJet flying from IAH to ATL, it would be replaced by a real mainline airplane with more mainline jobs.
Airdale
Well-Known Member
Re: Frontier files Ch.11
What do you think that would mean for those of us on the E170's?
What do you think that would mean for those of us on the E170's?
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Re: Frontier files Ch.11
Probably not much of anything. Status quo would be my bet. The E-Jets are big enough where they actually fit a lot of markets pretty well.
Probably not much of anything. Status quo would be my bet. The E-Jets are big enough where they actually fit a lot of markets pretty well.
Cruise
Well-Known Member
Re: Frontier files Ch.11
I agree! Although, why then, are the airlines crying over-capacity and reducing the number of seats available?
Just doesn't make sense to me. I know, I know, I'm not some 'great-mind MBA' and there really is no point in trying to 'make sense' of what upper airline mgmt thinks/ does.
I agree! Although, why then, are the airlines crying over-capacity and reducing the number of seats available?
Just doesn't make sense to me. I know, I know, I'm not some 'great-mind MBA' and there really is no point in trying to 'make sense' of what upper airline mgmt thinks/ does.