Frontier 3506

ERfly said:
I forgot about the 100' check. Add it to the list of "Things I'll Relearn In the Coming Months". I know it's well-regarded in the MD, but it's mocked a lot in the 767. I agree that it's not as useful in that airplane (just doing some pilot • will work just fine). However, when I explain to people that never flew the MD why we do it, the answer I always get is, "Oh...well...that makes sense."
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Does UPS do the same technique in their -11s? Ie- is this standard across fleets?
 
MikeD said:
Does UPS do the same technique in their -11s? Ie- is this standard across fleets?
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From what I remember when I went through training the first time was that UPS came to us and worked with our Landing Performance Team to help develop their program. Perhaps @A300Capt could speak better about it.

I do know that, at least back in 2022, there was an MD-11 Operators Safety conference that us, UPS and Western Global attended. Not sure if it's a formal thing now or not.
 
MikeD said:
Does UPS do the same technique in their -11s? Ie- is this standard across fleets?
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I haven't seen any talk of a company procedure like this on the forum. For sure not on the 76. I always thought the 76 was easy to land. I don't believe they have had recent landing issues in the 75/76 fleet. UPS never saw the massive hiring waves that brought on R-ATP level new hires. UPS tends to bring on more seasoned new hires. After some of the MD11 incidents they did do a landing awareness program where you did bounced landings in the sim. That was fleet wide maybe 8 years ago.
 
MikeD said:
Does UPS do the same technique in their -11s? Ie- is this standard across fleets?
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Our situation was complicated when we used to also fly the -10-10 and -10-30. All three airframes landed very differently, combined with low block hours and not very many landings period, let alone in each type, obviously created some issues that need to be addressed in the training program.
 
MikeD said:
Does UPS do the same technique in their -11s? Ie- is this standard across fleets?
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No, we didn’t do all that mental math gymnastics. Probably would’ve helped a few of my landings though, but as a Psychology major I can only tell you how I *felt* about math….it made me feel stupid!

In all seriousness, I found landing the MD much like the stretched B727-200. Round out around 30-50ft depending on weight, winds and even air temp while keeping power in…don’t let the autothrottles automatically retard toward idle at 50ft, as they will, regardless of what’s going on) until you arrest most of the descent and then slightly lower the pitch. If you time it perfectly the MD will reward you…if not, well ..welcome to the club. The stretch B727 was basically the same thing.

We did receive the landing awareness training after the FedEx accident in Japan, but it was mostly due to the pilot’s sight picture from a bounced landing. Folks were trying to salvage a hard bounce or skipped bounce landing and believing the mains were firmly on the ground, when they weren’t, they’d de-rotate into the nose gear. Most of what I got out of it was it’s best just to go around..
 
Dual input on the airbus algebraically sums the inputs applied from both sticks.

The last person to press the red takeover button has control.

Dual input can be a wild ride of PIO if you don't pay attention to the Dual Input light and Aural warning
 
I agree, it is firm but doesn't look bad enough to crush the struts bad enough to catch the nacelle. I had heard the nacelle made contact with ground. Don't know how accurate that is.

I hope the NTSB puts the load report that the bus generates for hard landing. IT will have recorded the VSI and G forces and more... It is what mx pulls up when you report a hard landing. It tells them all the specifics and from that they will know what they have to inspect or not.
 
Bandit_Driver said:
I agree, it is firm but doesn't look bad enough to crush the struts bad enough to catch the nacelle. I had heard the nacelle made contact with ground. Don't know how accurate that is.
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I’m curious if the wheel failed, or was it the bearing pack, as the axle is still attached and has visible grease in it.
 
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