From CFI to MEII

Alchemy

Alchemy

Well-Known Member
Is it possible to get the CFII, MEI, and MEII add-ons all in one checkride? I figure if you do a couple hours of oral for the II then spend another hour or two on multi engine aerodynamics, go up and teach some approaches, do the multi engine airwork, then do a single engine approach or two, you should be able to get all three add ons at once, correct?
 
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Is it possible to get the CFII, MEI, and MEII add-ons all in one checkride? I figure if you do a couple hours of oral for the II then spend another hour or two on multi engine aerodynamics, go up and teach some approaches, do the multi engine airwork, then do a single engine approach or two, you should be able to get all three add ons at once, correct?

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There isn't such a thing as a MEII, just like your instrument ticket works in a multi just as it does a single. If I am off base here, someone correct me.
 
It's very possible and actually a good way to get 15 PIC in a twin. (If you don't already have those hours) If you think about doing your CFII in a single and then doing your MEI you would still need your 15 hours PIC in the twin PLUS whatever time it might take in a single to get your CFII. It shouldn't take more than 15 hours to get the MEI maneuvers plus CFII approaches in to prep for your checkride.

I know the above situation doesn't apply to everyone, but a couple of people around here have gone that route and saved a couple hundred bucks. There still is no reason you couldn't do your MEI and CFII in one day. You might even find a DE who might cut you a deal. (Is is considered two checkrides.)
 
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Is it possible to get the CFII, MEI, and MEII add-ons all in one checkride? I figure if you do a couple hours of oral for the II then spend another hour or two on multi engine aerodynamics, go up and teach some approaches, do the multi engine airwork, then do a single engine approach or two, you should be able to get all three add ons at once, correct?

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There isn't such a thing as a MEII, just like your instrument ticket works in a multi just as it does a single. If I am off base here, someone correct me.

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You're correct. "MEII" doesn't exist. The CFI-IA is "excercisable" in whatever the pilot holds a commercial in. i.e. If the pilot is a CASEL then he's limited to instrument instruction in singles. If the pilot is an CAMEL (like me) he would be limited to instrument instruction in multi-engines.
 
So you're saying that I (with a CASEL and a CAMEL) could go and take my II practical in a Single Engine airplane and then be able to teach instruments in a multi? Seems like they'd want to see you teach the single engine instrument approaches....
 
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So you're saying that I (with a CASEL and a CAMEL) could go and take my II practical in a Single Engine airplane and then be able to teach instruments in a multi? Seems like they'd want to see you teach the single engine instrument approaches....

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That is exactly what we are saying.
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is this so???

I am a CFI-I and also a CAMEL. Is this implying that I cannot train someone to fly a twin, but can train someone who is already a multi pilot how to fly on instruments??

I turned down doing an IPC in a twin because I thought I needed my MEI!?!?!?!
 
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is this so???

I am a CFI-I and also a CAMEL. Is this implying that I cannot train someone to fly a twin, but can train someone who is already a multi pilot how to fly on instruments??

I turned down doing an IPC in a twin because I thought I needed my MEI!?!?!?!

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I think not....this was discussed a little while ago in another thread.....lots of opinions on it, none that I'd like to test the FAA lawyers with.
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Here's my 2 cents. I think the II lets you give instrument instruction in any class that is on your CFI certificate, not your commercial certificate. Instructor certificates are completely seperate from pilot certificates.

Saying a II who only has single engine on his/her CFI certificate can give instrument training in a twin is like saying an instrument rated pilot who only has single engine on their pilot certificate can fly IFR in a twin but not VFR.

CFI certificate is for teaching. Pilot certificate is for flying. They do not cross over.
 
Well after reading the regulations again, I retract my previous post.

Rather, think of it this way. The insurance company is going to rip you a new one if they find you giving instrument flight instruction and you don't have the appropriate catagory and class rating on your CFI certificate.
 
K, I am struggling this week. I misread your question and a few months back we did discuss this. Some say you can instruct intrument training in a multi, others say you cannot. I'll agree with Lloyd here, I wouldn't want to test the FAA on it so just get your MEI and you would be fine.
 
i'm pretty sure you need to have an mei to do instrument instuction in a twin. without it, you can only give instrument instruction in singles. but, you can fly ifr in both
 
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Here's my 2 cents. I think the II lets you give instrument instruction in any class that is on your CFI certificate, not your commercial certificate. Instructor certificates are completely seperate from pilot certificates.

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i think you are right.
 
Just to play Devil's Advocate guys, I think that although it is stupid, and insurance companies would shoot it down since you didn't have the MEI. You can get your CFII as an initial. If you do this, your flight instructor certificate would list under ratings Instrument Airplane. It would not have a Class rating at all. Who would you say this pilot could teach. Take for instance if that same pilot had a comercial pilot certificate with only commercial privlages for Multiengine land. What would that pilot be able to teach in. In my non legally binding opinion, the Instrument Airplane instructor rating will allow you to teach in any class of airplane you have an airplane class rating for on your commercial certificate. In the case of multiengine aircraft, you must remember you need five hours in make and model to instruct, and this would apply for either multiengine instruction or instrument instruction. Although it is not an Administrative Law decision, I have seen a FSDO comment that backed this up, I will try to find it.
 
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Is it possible to get the CFII, MEI, and MEII add-ons all in one checkride?

[/ QUOTE ] Been there, did that, sort of. You can do them on the same day, with the same DE. You don't have to leave the room between the two orals, and you don't have to get out of the airplane between the two flights. Saves some time (introductions, paperwork, pre-flight, start-up, taxi, etc). Essentially, you don't get out of demonstrating any knowledge or proficiency, but it goes faster for all.
(note: DE's can only do 2 checkrides a day, an this counts as two).

As for teaching CFII in a twin without an MEI. I think we all agree that it's not a good idea (could get in trouble). The legality is questionable too.

My cut on it (just opinion) is as follows:
1. CFII: You've demonstrated your ability to teach and keep the plane flying in IMC.
2. CFI-SE: You've demonstrated you ability to teach and keep a single-engine plane flying.
But... You have not demonstrated any ability to teach and keep a multi-engine plane flying (even though you can fly one yourself).
 
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In the case of multiengine aircraft, you must remember you need five hours in make and model to instruct, and this would apply for either multiengine instruction or instrument instruction. Although it is not an Administrative Law decision, I have seen a FSDO comment that backed this up, I will try to find it.

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You only need the 5 in make/model if you're instructing in a twin and that instruction is for a certificate or rating. So I couldn't give somebody dual in a 310 if they're wanting to get their AMEL add-on, but I could give them dual in a 310 if it's for a flight review. It's all in 61.195(f).

ricecakecm
CFII, MEI
 
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In the case of multiengine aircraft, you must remember you need five hours in make and model to instruct, and this would apply for either multiengine instruction or instrument instruction. Although it is not an Administrative Law decision, I have seen a FSDO comment that backed this up, I will try to find it.

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You only need the 5 in make/model if you're instructing in a twin and that instruction is for a certificate or rating. So I couldn't give somebody dual in a 310 if they're wanting to get their AMEL add-on, but I could give them dual in a 310 if it's for a flight review. It's all in 61.195(f).

ricecakecm
CFII, MEI

[/ QUOTE ] You need 15 hours in a multi as PIC before you can get your MEI and instruct in a multi.
 
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In the case of multiengine aircraft, you must remember you need five hours in make and model to instruct, and this would apply for either multiengine instruction or instrument instruction. Although it is not an Administrative Law decision, I have seen a FSDO comment that backed this up, I will try to find it.

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You only need the 5 in make/model if you're instructing in a twin and that instruction is for a certificate or rating. So I couldn't give somebody dual in a 310 if they're wanting to get their AMEL add-on, but I could give them dual in a 310 if it's for a flight review. It's all in 61.195(f).

ricecakecm
CFII, MEI

[/ QUOTE ] You need 15 hours in a multi as PIC before you can get your MEI and instruct in a multi.

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He's referring to additional makes/models after the checkride. Once you have your MEI you are good to instruct in – essentially – the type you got your rating in (in most cases). I have a lot of time in an Apache – but tha'ts the only twin I've ever flown – so I can NOT instruct out of any other twin until I get at least five hours in the given aircraft I am to instruct out of.
 
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He's referring to additional makes/models after the checkride. Once you have your MEI you are good to instruct in – essentially – the type you got your rating in (in most cases). I have a lot of time in an Apache – but tha'ts the only twin I've ever flown – so I can NOT instruct out of any other twin until I get at least five hours in the given aircraft I am to instruct out of.

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You could instruct in a Baron, for example, as long as you weren't instructing a person who's going for a multi-engine rating. You could do a Flight Review, IPC, WINGS, etc training in the Baron, Duchess, Seminole, C-310, etc.

Right now, the only airplane you could instruct somebody in, with that training leading towards a certificate or rating is the Apache.

Chris
 
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