Friendly fire

BigZ

Well-Known Member
Earlier today in Russia a Su-35 blew a Su-30 out of the skies during a training dogfight. Both pilots from the -30 ejected safely. Gun ammo was supposed to have been removed, but apparently wasn't. That's gotta be a hell of a "oh crap" moment. Good aim too, doubt the -35 guy held that trigger long.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
When doing training, the SOP was to always remain a minimum of two-switches away from any ability to employ weapons not intended to be employed. This is the result of real world incidents of course. I still remember an Eagle hitting another Eagle with a Sidewinder AAM while boresighting their systems as they headed out to an alert forward base. Eagle managed to stay airborne and recover successfully.

C78507A3-4E0B-4B0C-9BDF-38731E85D6FA.jpeg
 

Lawman

Well-Known Member
Earlier today in Russia a Su-35 blew a Su-30 out of the skies during a training dogfight. Both pilots from the -30 ejected safely. Gun ammo was supposed to have been removed, but apparently wasn't. That's gotta be a hell of a "oh crap" moment. Good aim too, doubt the -35 guy held that trigger long.
If I remember the explanation correctly.. (it was over a lot of drinking with a Luftwaffe Fulcrum Pilot) the weapons processing computer in the 29/27 series with their 30mm is basically a pilot elects, computer decides model. It takes into account velocities of the target using radar and IRIS-T and makes a trig problem to insure the nose is pointed to that spot.

So they are taught to depress and hold the trigger while flying for the gun WEZ and the computer decides when to do a burst since their single barrel cannon has much less volume of fire and beating zone than the multi barrel M61 on all our fighters.

If that’s still true, he was probably doing such.... and then there were a series of loud unplanned bangs.


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MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
If I remember the explanation correctly.. (it was over a lot of drinking with a Luftwaffe Fulcrum Pilot) the weapons processing computer in the 29/27 series with their 30mm is basically a pilot elects, computer decides model. It takes into account velocities of the target using radar and IRIS-T and makes a trig problem to insure the nose is pointed to that spot.

So they are taught to depress and hold the trigger while flying for the gun WEZ and the computer decides when to do a burst since their single barrel cannon has much less volume of fire and beating zone than the multi barrel M61 on all our fighters.

If that’s still true, he was probably doing such.... and then there were a series of loud unplanned bangs.
If you want to send weapons school staff into a fit of rage, just tell them "put the thing on the thing!" :)

One of the things Ive hated about consent to release, especially as it comes to air-ground unguided ordnance, is it makes pilots lazy as it comes to strict maneuver entry parameters and maintenance of same throughout the maneuver, particularly as it cones to dive bombing. With consent to release, you could fly the most effed-up parameters, and the crutch of the computer would figure out that single instant where your jet just happened to magically be passing through valid parameters, and release the bomb........the pilot having done zero to help the computer out in the entire evolution.
 

Lawman

Well-Known Member
If you want to send weapons school staff into a fit of rage, just tell them "put the thing on the thing!" :)

One of the things Ive hated about consent to release, especially as it comes to air-ground unguided ordnance, is it makes pilots lazy as it comes to strict maneuver entry parameters and maintenance of same throughout the maneuver, particularly as it cones to dive bombing. With consent to release, you could fly the most effed-up parameters, and the crutch of the computer would figure out that single instant where your jet just happened to magically be passing through valid parameters, and release the bomb........the pilot having done zero to help the computer out in the entire evolution.



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BigZ

Well-Known Member
If I remember the explanation correctly.. (it was over a lot of drinking with a Luftwaffe Fulcrum Pilot) the weapons processing computer in the 29/27 series with their 30mm is basically a pilot elects, computer decides model. It takes into account velocities of the target using radar and IRIS-T and makes a trig problem to insure the nose is pointed to that spot.

So they are taught to depress and hold the trigger while flying for the gun WEZ and the computer decides when to do a burst since their single barrel cannon has much less volume of fire and beating zone than the multi barrel M61 on all our fighters.

If that’s still true, he was probably doing such.... and then there were a series of loud unplanned bangs.


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Not saying it's impossible, but sounds very un-russian. With "gun funnel" being the basic mode, changing the firing logic in the target tracked mode sounds cumbersome
 

Nark

Macho Superpilot
G-dang NTC... every rotation something very expensive happens.
During a rotation a few after mine (2016) @Lawman ’s AH64 took a few rounds in the tail from a grunt’s M4.
A humvee rolled during my rotation, killing the driver. The next rotation after mine, a flight school classmate rolled a Blackhawk. That was a doozy (none fatal).
Friendly fire and how-the-heck could that happen moments happen all to often.
 

BigZ

Well-Known Member
On this one there's apparently also variant SOP differences. -27/-30 pilots are wondering why master arm the gun trigger at all for a training flight, since the camera will capture it anyways even if the trigger is safety'd, the -35S guys claim that's what's in their book and their guncam works differently.
 

Lawman

Well-Known Member
G-dang NTC... every rotation something very expensive happens.
During a rotation a few after mine (2016) @Lawman ’s AH64 took a few rounds in the tail from a grunt’s M4.
A humvee rolled during my rotation, killing the driver. The next rotation after mine, a flight school classmate rolled a Blackhawk. That was a doozy (none fatal).
Friendly fire and how-the-heck could that happen moments happen all to often.
I find it hilarious when somebody else is telling a story the stuff they heard about that when I’m in the room. Since it was so public that actually happens a lot more often than I’d expect.

Like let me hang and just fill in the crazier details while you do the meat and potatoes.

It’s like my own version of the “Pavarotti” story in Red October.


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