Frequency change to ground after landing

felixk

felixk

Well-Known Member
Hi

I'm a CFI at KCDW. Today I landed with a student and tower was a bit busy. Usually I am told to "Contact ground .9". This time I wasn't told so. I was always under the impression that unlike switching from ground to tower when ready for takeoff, I need to have the tower tell me that I can switch to ground when I land. So i waited until there was a break and asked tower for a frequency change to ground. He promptly told me to contact ground. Once I get on ground frequency the ground controller tells me that I don't need to get a frequency change and that I should just switch to ground after landing. I apologized and said that in the future I will switch directly to ground.

This really bugged me because I was 99% sure that I need to get permission to switch to ground. Am I correct in this or should I just switch to ground next time without permission?

Thanks!

Felix
 
Technically, you're correct. That being said, the tower is manned by humans so every one of them is a little different. I fly into CDW frequently and just switch when clear if they don't say anything.
 
I would say you don't switch frequencies until being specifically told to do so by ATC. 2-1-17 in the 7110.65 describes radio communications for controllers. You should hear something like, "N12345, turn left at Alpha and contact ground .9." The controller should tell you to switch prior to you entering another person's area of control (in this case taxiways).
 
felixk said:
I used to fly at KFRG and they never told me to switch to ground, then one time i flew into another airport and got yelled at for switching to ground before tower told me.

This is the best thing I can find: http://www.pilotworkshop.com/tips/atc_contacting_ground.htm. I checked the AIM, the FAA books, and even the Air Traffic Controller manual and no clear direction on this.
Click to expand...
AIM 4-3-14: "A pilot who has just landed should not change from the tower frequency to the ground control frequency until directed to do so by the controller."
 
felixk said:
Hi

I'm a CFI at KCDW. Today I landed with a student and tower was a bit busy. Usually I am told to "Contact ground .9". This time I wasn't told so. I was always under the impression that unlike switching from ground to tower when ready for takeoff, I need to have the tower tell me that I can switch to ground when I land. So i waited until there was a break and asked tower for a frequency change to ground. He promptly told me to contact ground. Once I get on ground frequency the ground controller tells me that I don't need to get a frequency change and that I should just switch to ground after landing. I apologized and said that in the future I will switch directly to ground.

This really bugged me because I was 99% sure that I need to get permission to switch to ground. Am I correct in this or should I just switch to ground next time without permission?

Thanks!

Felix
Click to expand...

That's the way I've always done it. Sometimes the towers won't hand you off to ground and want you to taxi on tower's frequency so it's best to just ask tower if they still haven't given you any instruction once you've pulled off the runway. Honestly I'm surprised ground would tell you that, but towers can be very different from one another.
 
What the book says and what you're expected to do are frequently quite different. You've got to use best judgment. If the freq is busy as hell, I don't waste valuable radio time asking for a switch when I know what they want me to do. I switch over. On the off chance that he gets mad, I'll file an ASAP/ASRS as soon as I get home to cover my ass. Keep things moving.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
AIM 4-3-14: "A pilot who has just landed should not change from the tower frequency to the ground control frequency until directed to do so by the controller."
Click to expand...

Doesn't get any clearer than that. Thanks. If this happens again i'll just tell them to read AIM 4-3-14.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
What the book says and what you're expected to do are frequently quite different. You've got to use best judgment. If the freq is busy as hell, I don't waste valuable radio time asking for a switch when I know what they want me to do. I switch over. On the off chance that he gets mad, I'll file an ASAP/ASRS as soon as I get home to cover my ass. Keep things moving.
Click to expand...

I hear ya, i don't want to clog up the frequency with B.S. like this, but i also don't want to be filling out the asrs form. If the tower wants to bust me on switching to ground without their permission then I will have absolutely no defense, especially since it's in the AIM (thanks MidlifeFlyer).

I like usphsfnp's suggestion too. Instead of explicitly asking for the frequency change, i'll just remind the tower i'm off the active.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
What the book says and what you're expected to do are frequently quite different. You've got to use best judgment. If the freq is busy as hell, I don't waste valuable radio time asking for a switch when I know what they want me to do. I switch over. On the off chance that he gets mad, I'll file an ASAP/ASRS as soon as I get home to cover my ass. Keep things moving.
Click to expand...
I agree about using best judgement. And that what the book says may be different than a local procedure and what they might want you to do that day.

But that busy day? I don't know. A busy day requires more coordination between Tower and Ground, not less. Increased coordination can mean delayed instructions. Our decision to switch without instruction could lead to controller getting mad with quite a bit of justification since we are interfering with their plan on how to keep things moving on their taxiways and runways. Seems to me that "busy" is more of a reason to follow the book's guidance, not less.
 
If pilots followed that advice, then ATL would come to a screeching halt and controllers would be screaming at you for not switching the frequency like a professional. Sorry, but sometimes you've just got to use your experience and realize that it's not time to be a stickler for what some bureaucrat in a cubicle came up with to put in a book.
 
RANT ON...... Ok ive got to say this you pilot types keep using the term HAND OFF WRONG, a hand off is a RADAR function used by RADAR certified controller in transfering RADAR data to the receiving RADAR controller. Being told to contact ground is not a hand off but a transfer of communications AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. RANT OFF .Thank you and now back to our regularly scheduled program !
 
queeno said:
RANT ON...... Ok ive got to say this you pilot types keep using the term HAND OFF WRONG, a hand off is a RADAR function used by RADAR certified controller in transfering RADAR data to the receiving RADAR controller. Being told to contact ground is not a hand off but a transfer of communications AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. RANT OFF .Thank you and now back to our regularly scheduled program !
Click to expand...

Correct and if I can expand on that. Most of my time was in radar approach control but I did work some control tower too, both GA and Air Carrier. In my experience there is NOT a transfer of control or any type of coordination for landing traffic from the local controller to the ground controller. When working Ground Control you're keeping and eye on the runway maybe working Clearance Delivery too. You simply hear UA412 clearing at delta, taxi to the gate.
 
RobertB said:
I would say you don't switch frequencies until being specifically told to do so by ATC. 2-1-17 in the 7110.65 describes radio communications for controllers. You should hear something like, "N12345, turn left at Alpha and contact ground .9." The controller should tell you to switch prior to you entering another person's area of control (in this case taxiways).
Click to expand...

To be fair I don't know any pilots ever violated for not knowing the 7110.65.

Also, if you've cleared the runway and crossed the hold bars while still on the local controllers frequency you are already in another controllers area of responsibility.
 
felixk said:
I like usphsfnp's suggestion too. Instead of explicitly asking for the frequency change, i'll just remind the tower i'm off the active.
Click to expand...

If the tower controller is so busy you can't get a word in and you're blocking an active taxiway just how long should one wait before switching to ground control without direction?

The taxiway you're blocking is preventing the next aircraft from exiting the runway which forces other aircraft to go-around or stops departures.
 
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