Freon Leak

[fsiflyer]

Ok hot shots...so you're the Captain...

Real world scenario (DID NOT HAPPEN TO ME ). So you are the captain of a business jet and you are having fuel panel indication problems. You and the FO begin to trouble shoot and find nothing. Seems like indication problems. Upon landing you call the Director of Maintenance and he says, "yeah the fuel panel, had some corrossion on it and we cleaned it the best we could. When the air conditioner failed last month it blew freon all over the fuel circuit board."

Now when we do a fuel panel check as a preflight item we are still getting indicator problems. We know that there is corrosion on the circuit board in the back.

The next week of flying is full of flying and they are saying a new board will be installed next week when the plane goes in for schedules maintenance.

What do you as the Captain do?

How corrosive is freon in a liquid or gas form anyhow?

 

[jtrain609]

The answer to this is a formula, actually. It's a balance between whether the panel is on the MEL, and if it's not how likely you think getting ramped by the FAA is.

 

[fsiflyer]

The answer to this is a formula, actually. It's a balance between whether the panel is on the MEL, and if it's not how likely you think getting ramped by the FAA is.

Said airplane has no MEL. What now? How would the FAA ever know?

 

[jtrain609]

That's a good question, and it's a question you'll be betting your tickets on.

The fuel panel's jacket up? Who cares. Don't pressure fuel it and top it off every time. You know you'll have enough gas then. It's not a safety of flight thing, and even in the ERJ we can depart without a fuel sensor working as long as we follow a certain procedure. The bigger issue, as I see it, is what the FAA does to you when you knowingly flew an aircraft that's unairworthy.

EDIT: You know the FAA just shut down some 135 pax. operator out in California right? I forget their name, but it had to do with letting their aircraft fly without having operational control of the aircraft.

 

[TheFlyingTurkey]

How corrosive is freon in a liquid or gas form anyhow?

Freon (a trade name for refrigerant) is not corrosive. In fact, in the old days we used to use refrigerant R-11 to clean and degrease parts. R-11 boils at about 76 degrees F, so you could use it in its liquid state.

One of the good things about refrigerant is that is not very corrosive at all, but acts like a cleaning agent. It can damage electronics in its liquid state just like water could. Also when high pressure refrigerant leaks out, its pressure changes rapidly causing evaporation which has a cooling effect.(thats a good thing in air conditioning!) It can cause frost bite and damage human skin, so it can damage electronics that way also. A very cold circuit board will condense moisture on it, and that moisture could lead to corrosion.

Refrigerant in an aircraft seems strange to me. If there is a leak in the air conditioning system, it could kill everyone in the cabin. Refrigerant displaces oxygen, and with a large enough leak you could suffocate.

Oh by the way, I know all this because I've been an air conditioning technician since 1990.

 

[Berkut]

Refrigerant in an aircraft seems strange to me. If there is a leak in the air conditioning system, it could kill everyone in the cabin. Refrigerant displaces oxygen, and with a large enough leak you could suffocate.

Vapor-cycle air conditioners are fairly common in aircraft. There's enough ventilation so that leaks aren't a huge deal.

As far as the board goes, they should have replaced it last month when they discovered the problem, or at least scheduled a time in the near future to do it. Life's too short to fly unairworthy airplanes.

 

[fsiflyer]

Well this is what happened in the end...the airplane was written up and downed at the last location where it was at which also happened to be a service center. New part ordered and installed. No further issues. Airplane missed one charter due to maintenance. Pilots learned of no further action.

This happened to a very good friend of mine based out of LA. The company was putting enormous pressure to keep flying. In the end it was a very difficult decision even though he knew the right thing to do. He called everyone asking for opinions and he pretty much heard the same thing as here. Funny thing is he knew the right answer as well but when it is happening to you it is sometimes hard to make the tough decision.

Moral of the story...be careful. Even though we know the right answers when the problem is not ours we may be hesitant when we are faced in the real deal. An outstation in the middle of no where perhaps or pressure to take a charter flight. Be careful out there folks.

Fly safe!