Foreign Students

Sidious

Sidious

Well-Known Member
So a little background: About 6 months ago my school received a contract to train about 20 foreign students. We were told as instructors, that English was their second language and everything was going to be great. Well turns out that neither is true. I received one that had 70 hours before he was ready to solo. This is also not a case of instructors milking students; we have great people and this is happening to every one of these students.

My question is to all those who have dealt with this or a similar situation with foreign students. What did you do or what could you suggest?

I strongly believe that these students had no experience operating any type of heavy machinery and thus and aircraft was even more alien.

Also, their English skills are poor. It may be their second language, but when it takes 4-5 seconds to process “Keep the nose coming down…. No don’t flare…. Don’t flare…. POWER!” it is get dangerous.

We were kicking the idea around of teaching them how to drive or even some type of video game to improve hand eye coordination, but really we’re at a loss. So Im asking everyone out here…. What do you suggest?
 
Nothing you can really do. India?

We have the same problems. It seems like motivation is the main contributor to their lack of success. A majority of our students would rather buy hours than fly them, they would rather fail a checkride 3 times than actually prepare for it the first time. I think they were forced to either go to college or come here for flight training and took the 50,000 dollar vacation from their parents instead of college.

I have an Italian student that doesn't speak English well at all, but understands me for the most part. He studies hard, is motivated, and is going at a rate 3-4x faster than other foreign students I have that speak great English. The lack of English skills won't hurt someone if they are motivated.

The private license is really the biggest obstacle. I have had to take some students from other instructors that had over 100 hours before soloing. In one case, I got him at 110 hours. He was told numerous times that flying might not be for him, but he was actually motivated. I got him soloed in 10 hours with me, and his license in another 10. He failed his instrument checkride the first time, but got through it in a couple of months. When it was all said and done, he was done with Private-Commercial Multi in a year.

I know that is a lot to process, so here is a quick wrap up:

Sometimes, it is the English skills, a lot of time it is the motivation, and a lot of time they just don't have a great aptitude for flying. In some rare cases, you get a combo of all of those factors.

Stay patient, try not to get frustrated, and don't take it personally when they bomb a checkride.
 
mojo6911 said:
Stay patient, try not to get frustrated, and don't take it personally when they bomb a checkride.
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Good points and you pretty much hit everything on the head. They all insist on taking checks when they aren't ready yet and get frustrated when they fail.

Anyone else have success taking some unknown approach to this issue?
 
Although this usually never happens, you need to impress on the management that their aviation english needs to be much stronger before they train.

manegement usually only sees $$ and doesn't care, but language is one of the roots of the problem. The next is usually studying...different culture.
 
For what its worth i've given training to three Indian students. On there behalf, I can say that all of them were very bright, focused, and showing up prepared was never an issue. Unfortunately I had to drop one of them, and pass him along to another instructor because I don't feel I was getting through to them. Partially because of a language barrier, and partially because the guy had no common sense what so ever. Around 15 hours into his training (and after a good 10 hours of ground, and studying the Jeppesen Book), he asked me if an AA5 was a multi engine airplane (because you can open the cowling on both sides) :banghead:

My advice...Make it clear that if there is any confusion in the language department, you stop and make things clear so both are on the same page. And with any student who just doesn't get it, seriously consider having him or her try flying with another instructor if you just cant get through to them. You owe it to them to not waste their money.

goodluck.
 
I have had students from India, Saudi Arabia, and Mexico. The biggest thing to realize is most of these kids are coming over here at 19-20 years old. Most have never had a job, or responsibilities. Many of them their parents don't even know how to be responsible because the granddad is the leader of the home and makes all the decisions!
I wish there was a simple fix to this issue. The only thing you can do is keep holding them responsible. If they don't study they don't fly! I have a form I made up and hand out to them when I schedule them for their next flight.

one other option you might want to try. Create an online account (like a facebook or? ) and keep track of their activities. Show up late, and unprepared, no-show, etc... and make sure their parents have access to this account so they can see what jr is doing with their money!

unfortunatly it is going to take them longer because they wont apply themselves. You do have to protect yourself too, instead of letting them take you to a dangerous situation, these type of student you have to be ready to take over a little earlier then what you would with other students.
 
Sidious said:
Any luck?
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While instructing at AF, I had 2 Indian students. Two totally different personalities. One of them was a go getter. He soloed at around 15 hrs. He just understood the mechanics of flight. The other, after nearly 60 hours of flight instruction, couldn't even fly a proper downwind. He was 141, and had multiple instructors. As for the language part, they both understood english about the same. I don't think it's what country they come from, I think it's a matter of where in that country they come from. No offense to those of you in the southeast of the US, but that part of the country just isn't known for very many bright people. Work your way up to New York, or California, and you usually find more. Just like in India, there are places where running water was recently installed, then there is places like New Dehli, that is very "westernized."

Please take no offense to my comment about "the south" if you are from there. It's not meant to be derogatory.
 
For the language issue--there may be ESL tutoring options available through your school. We've had a couple people (native speakers of non-American English) who have had a lot of success getting some ESL tutoring to bring them up to speed. If your students are religious, sometimes churches and other houses of worship with large immigrant constituencies offer free ESL work, as well.

Other than language, the biggest problem I've had with international students is keeping them goal-oriented--many seem happy just to fly and have a little fun. I have the same problem with doctors and lawyers. Sometimes I've found it helps to sit down with them and go over all the experience requirements and PTS standards with them. While I generally prefer to be a little more informal with my students, some need the concrete information pounded into their heads repeatedly to get them on-track towards a license.
 
Sidious, I have been training Indian students for a while. Although I have had a mixed bag of good and bad students, I have noticed for the most part all of them only respond when you constantly push them. Motivation is there weakness.

Just hang in there and be patient with them.

BTW, we just got 2 Nigerians about a month ago. Is there a pilot shortage in Nigeria?
 
mojo6911 said:
Sorry, he didn't really offer anything new. Just keep working at it. Stay patient, don't take it personal.
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Ok no problem, thanks for asking. We have a plan to help them all get through their PPL. We'll see how it goes...
 
This seemed like a good place to say this:
Sidious, your signature is pure gold.
 
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