Forbes Article on Regional Pilot Pay vs McDonalds Pay
- Thread starter SeanD
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drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
"Force" is a pretty strong word. The appropriate response would be "Really, you and what army?" About the only real power the League had was to throw a member nation out for not behaving. They did that to the USSR for invading Finland. And that was pretty much the end of the League...
WacoFan
Bigly
No, I don't necessarily disagree with you - but as is said below, it was relatively powerless as compared to the UN. I think one purpose is to define "sovereignty" - not the clinical definition, but what it means to other people and in practice. You want to talk about sovereignty look no further than Chris Christie calling the "rising strain of libertarianism" scary. Because of widows and orphans and such. Well, when I hear him so those words, all I hear is the sentiment I expressed here a couple weeks ago regarding the NSA scandal - we've allowed 19 Saudi's to accomplish what Britain (x2), the Confederacy, the Nazis and Imperial Japan and the Soviet Union couldn't do - they've defeated us. Accepting the current surveillance state is a clear erosion of our sovereignty in a way. It can mean different things to different people.
WacoFan
Bigly
Agree. But I still find Wilson repugnant. Maybe the UN doesn't happen without the crackpot idea of the League. Neither has shown themselves to be competent.
desertdog71
Girthy Member
Thread creep is beautiful.
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Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
The Finns are still pretty pissed off about that...don't mention Karelia.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
I too would be quite particular about who flew it. But it wouldn't have anything to do with a college education.
amorris311
Well-Known Member
That's the choice you get to make with your own airplane. It has been no secret for decades delta and others have required a college degree. If it's your dream to work for one of these carriers I think it would make sense to gt that degree. If you want to work somewhere else then don't get the degree. There are many people out there that have a degree that are smart and there are people out there without a degree that are smart. The conversation should have nothing to do with whether or not you're smart. I don't think belittling anyone that does or doesn't have a degree is just stupid. I fly airplanes for a living and I didn't go to school to do that. If anything, I went to play football. I applied myself and got a degree but does it make me any smarter? I don't know. Does it qualify me though to get a job at Delta? Sure does.
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
The Finns generally don't have a whole lot of nice things to say about the Russkies. It's interesting...I think a lot of Americans think of them as just another subdivision of Squarehe...er Scandos. But they're very much their own animal. I've had some great drinking adventures with both Swedes and Finns, and the experiences were quite different. Like, with the Swedes it was a hipper, more self-aware version of Muricans going to a bar and hitting on obviously disinterested women. With the Finns, it often ended in like Feats of Strength or trying to kill animals with improvised weapons. Interesting people, them...
desertdog71
Girthy Member
I have a coffee table book my Finnish student gave me. Pretty cool guy and was totally fascinated by those giant Walmart sub sandwiches.
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desertdog71
Girthy Member
As for me and a college degree. If I had a PhD its still not going to be me picked out of that stack of 12,000 applicants because I'll be pushing 50 friggin years old before I meet the other minimums. I've never had the dream or delusions of flying for a Legacy carrier. I'll be happy to settle into some lame 91 gig that's way off anyone's radar and fade into oblivion. The path to get there is the regionals right now.
I'm glad I have JC to teach me that I've done everything the wrong way. Guess what though, my uneducated, trucking, country ass is here struggling to get ahead like the rest of you.
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I'm glad I have JC to teach me that I've done everything the wrong way. Guess what though, my uneducated, trucking, country ass is here struggling to get ahead like the rest of you.
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amorris311
Well-Known Member
Well if you want to go with the poor me approach then keep it up. I'm happy that you were a successful business owner and truck driver. Like I have said before, a very close family friend is too. Believe it or not he has a masters degree! He loves being on the road and the nomad life he lives. I can tell you from experience that you will have a hard time getting your dream job if you keep the I'm a dirty uneducated truck driver sense of thinking. Just my thoughts.As for me and a college degree. If I had a PhD its still not going to be me picked out of that stack of 12,000 applicants because I'll be pushing 50 friggin years old before I meet the other minimums. I've never had the dream or delusions of flying for a Legacy carrier. I'll be happy to settle into some lame 91 gig that's way off anyone's radar and fade into oblivion. The path to get there is the regionals right now.
I'm glad I have JC to teach me that I've done everything the wrong way. Guess what though, my uneducated, trucking, country ass is here struggling to get ahead like the rest of you.
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desertdog71
Girthy Member
I've never had trouble getting what I want and the dirty trucker line is tongue in cheek. I have zero debt a beautiful wife and two great kids. I have the world by the balls.
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🦈💜
Well-Known Member
This is a fair point.
I do, and I've done so in the tech industry. If a job req requires a degree, I pass on it. Confuses HR and recruiters alike to no end... they usually insist that "Oh, you'll be just fine. They just put that on there, it doesn't mean anything."
Look, here's the thing: I'm a bit of what you call a "why" kind of fox, and I still feel like I'm having the "... brawndo's got what plants crave." "Yeah, it's got electrolytes" conversation when it comes to college degrees.
The best arguments that I've seen seem to either be:
Get a college degree, because a college degree is required, so you should get a degree.
If you had a college degree, you'd know what makes having a degree different
Going to college shows that you can follow the rules
Going to college is statistically proven to result in better employees.
The thing is, I've examined the units that remain in my "college education", and I've come to the conclusion that not a single one of them effects any net change to my level of knowledge, ability to finish things, intangibles, etc. In point of fact, I possess sufficient knowledge of the subject areas that my classmates are often asking me "Why are you in this class?".
The only significant difference that I can see between myself now and myself at the end of my education (Which I'll finish just because it's there...) is that I'll be out many tens of thousands of dollars that I could have invested, used to buy an airplane, used to fly, or any number of other things.
My observations indicate that there's an awful lot of confirmation bias amongst college grads.
As to point number two, I have a problem with following the "rules" just because they're there and someone says that they're rules. That doesn't mean regulations, opspecs, SOPs, traffic laws, law, and so on. But if I'm working for a company and something's being done the wrong way ... do I silently just do it, just because the 'rules' say to do it? It depends on the company, right? It depends on the situation...right?
You see, I'm a professional. I had to sit in a little room with a DPE today and explain what that meant to me, and I've put a lot of thought in over the past few weeks. I am a systems architect. It is my JOB to question the 'rules' and 'best practices' (which are often anything but) of the entire operations systems administration / cloud industry, to challenge the perceptions of management and industry peers and to show them better ways to do it. You better believe that I didn't get here by arbitrarily following anyone's rules other than my own.
The point that I'm trying to make here, to sum it up, is that you must give me a better reason for getting a degree than "the job requires a degree." We're talking about a massive capital expenditure here, and years of busywork ... tautology does not pass due diligence. (I could probably sum up my entire comment in that one line)
As far as "A degree is a sieve"? I'm not wholly sure I'd want to work for a company where my contributions were valued only as a cog... as true as that might be for the airline world. I am more than a sum of my hours and credentials; I have much to offer almost any company if the company is open to it, as do most people. We are all a sum of our experiences, and we all bring something unique to the table...degree or no degree.
You know what else works as a sieve?
Hiring only people whose last names begin with A, F, J, N, R, S, T, and Z.
~Fox
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
I'm not arguing with the logic that "if you want to work for a legacy airline, you need to get a degree." I don't think anyone is arguing with that. You can't change the entrenched attitude of HR people who all have advanced degrees and believe that a 4-year degree is a bare minimum requirement for just about anything nowadays. This is more an academic (pardon the pun) discussion about whether the college degree standard that HR imposes is actually justified, or really just an overly simplistic method of thinning the herd.
desertdog71
Girthy Member
amorris311
Well-Known Member
Simplistic? Studies show that people with a bachelors degree or higher are more often easier to train and are better employees as a whole. Are there exceptions to the rule? You betcha! I'd say you're doing fine without one as well as some others.
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
I liked your post. But as one of those "confirmation bias" college grads, my education was, hands down, the best experience I've ever had. And I don't mean beer-bonging vodka or having absurdly promiscuous sex with lots of women and possibly some plants (although those may or may not have happened, too). I think it probably depends largely upon whether or not you're studying things in which you're genuinely, deeply interested with people who are absurdly bright and well-informed. Worked for me, anyway.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Those studies focus on a single criteria. The real question is, are there better methods of determining whether someone will be a good employee than using a 4-year degree as a litmus test? I believe the answer is clearly "yes."
I hired someone two weeks ago. I honestly couldn't tell you what school she went to, what her degree is in, or if she even attended college. Why? Because it was irrelevant to me. Someone could graduate from Harvard with a 4.0 GPA and a triple major, and I wouldn't hire him. I'm interested in experience. The thing my eyes went to on the resume wasn't the education section, but the prior job experience section. And I saw 20 years of experience in real estate, with over a decade of solid property management experience. To me, that's far more important than anything related to college. I don't need to know her "trainability," because I know that she's already been doing the job successfully for a long period of time. What school she went to and what her GPA was twenty years ago is perfectly useless information. It tells me absolutely nothing about this person, and even less about how well she'll do the job.
The story is the same for pilots. While the degree may be a suitable method of weeding out candidates for entry-level positions at the regionals where most of the applicants don't have prior experience to use as an indicator, it's absolutely silly to use it as a criteria for selecting candidates for legacy and major airline positions.