Forbes Article on Regional Pilot Pay vs McDonalds Pay

drunkenbeagle said:
Why pilots that are otherwise qualified to be working at an airline choose not to seems incredibly relevant to the topic, no? Scarcity of pilots is the only thing that will drive up pay. Low pay did not drive down the supply of pilots, but experience requirements seem to be having that effect now. Hell, I can't find a single instructor to cover for me around here, and I would like a break.

I know a lot of pilots, airline and non-airline. The airline guys bitch more, fact. DPApilot - how is corporate flying comparing to your old airline gig? And he was living it up with 3 day overnights in the Caribbean every time I talked to him.
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The pay sucked at the Airline. QOL and flying was great, but this job is 10 times better!
 
ppragman said:
I'd love to, but how do I make my family suffer on the "possibility" of better? If I could go straight to an Atlas, or Delta, or Alaska, or whatever, I would...but I can't without taking the kind of hit to finances that would bankrupt us, or without my son wondering who I am after a shift. I'm pretty happy where I'm at, and I'll do "ok" here for the foreseable future, but let's be serious, if you're not a single male, you're at a disadvantage.
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I feel ya - I stood at a crossroads a couple of years ago when my wife and I were about to embark on In vitro fertilization. If it didn't work I was probably going to pursue aviation more seriously and work towards my commercial/CFI. I figured without kids I could justify the lifestyle and massive salary drop. It did work, though ... x2. Now being the primary breadwinner for a family of four, it's just not a possibility - and that's OK. I was never one of those people who could only see himself flying. I had to get over that real quick when my USAFA application was rejected in part because of my color vision back in the day.
 
jtrain609 said:
Guys in the crew room yesterday were talking about where their overnights were on this trip and how their kids were doing.

I mean, wait! That's not what the Internet says so I must be wrong!

Also, I should add that the only other thing I hear at work is how the company can burn before they take concessions.
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Yet time and time again concessions are taken and flight instructors march off to 18,000$ a year regional FO gigs, but it's ok, because you get bumped up to 28,000$ after the first year!

All I'm saying is that I feel like I deserve a reasonable wage, 40,000$ a year entry level (in the 121 arena at least) is not unreasonable for the training, money, and time spent to get here. Let's quit pretending like the regionals don't have the specific purpose of keeping wages low. I understand paying dues, but this is beyond insulting and violating. Labor needs to fight tooth and nail for every inch management attempts to take.
 
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dasleben said:
If that's what you're getting out of this discussion, I don't know what to tell ya. :)

I guarantee the math will show that over the long term, building jet time early will result in higher career earnings. It's disingenuous to say that it's wrong to go to a regional, just because someone makes more over the short term.
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Last time I did the math I'd need to make fedex md11 capt to start to get to career ernings parity if my career stays on the same track its going. Betting my career on such low chances seemed unwise.

Ppragman makes even more than I do and is younger. I'd be willing to bet that he'll make more long term.

Making lots more when you're young and putting large pieces of that away are all but impossible to catch up to unless you make 200000++ for many years later in life. Compound interest can be a great thing.

That all said I'm still trying to get the jet upgrade. I have enough tprop time ill sell some.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
 
TWP said:
Yet time and time again concessions are taken and flight instructors march off to 18,000$ a year regional FO gigs, but it's ok, because you get bumped up to 28,000$ after the first year!

All I'm saying is that I feel like I deserve a reasonable wage, 40,000$ a year entry level (in the 121 arena at least) is not unreasonable for the training, money, and time spent to get here. Let's quit pretending like the regionals don't have the specific purpose of keeping wages low. I understand paying dues, but this is beyond insulting and violating. Labor needs to fight tooth and nail for every inch management attempts to take.
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How many times does it have to be said - Go to the right regional, you will easily make more (potentially considerably more) than $40k after your first year! Even first year pay will be a lot more than what you're saying here. I think it should be even more, let's get the fact straight people. Not every place is the equivalent of Great Lakes.

Year for year, I make more than any AmeriFlight CA as a regional FO (by a good margin), yet that's considered somehow to bypass the low regional pay and QOL. I don't get it?
 
z987k said:
I
Last time I did the math I'd need to make fedex md11 capt to start to get to career ernings parity if my career stays on the same track its going. Betting my career on such low chances seemed unwise.

Ppragman makes even more than I do and is younger. I'd be willing to bet that he'll make more long term.

Making lots more when you're young and putting large pieces of that away are all but impossible to catch up to unless you make 200000++ for many years later in life. Compound interest can be a great thing.

That all said I'm still trying to get the jet upgrade. I have enough tprop time ill sell some.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
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You'd have to make FDX MD-11 CA pay to make up for a low 5-10 years? You must already be making $100,000+ then, so my advice doesn't apply to you. :)
 
GypsyPilot said:
How many times does it have to be said - Go to the right regional, you will easily make more (potentially considerably more) than $40k after your first year! Even first year pay will be a lot more than what you're saying here. I think it should be even more, let's get the fact straight people. Not every place is the equivalent of Great Lakes.

Year for year, I make more than any AmeriFlight CA as a regional FO (by a good margin), yet that's considered somehow to bypass the low regional pay and QOL. I don't get it?
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So show us your numbers? I ask as an honest question, not trying to be a smart ass. Based on a 75hr guarantee and APC's SkyWest's pay scales I come up with; first year FO 19,800, second year FO 27,900 to 35,100, third year FO 28,800 to 36,900, fourth year FO 29,700 to 38,700. The different pay scale represent the low being the EMB-120 and the high being the CRJ900. Those numbers all are pretty far away from 40k. Plus after the second year pay raise, its a dollar an hour a year until year eight when the FO pay scale tops out. Except for the CRJ900 is around two dollars an hour a year. Now I understand there's overtime, and extra flying to be done to get your pay up higher. Not everyone can work overtime and they could take it away or cut it back at any time, so you can't plan your finances on always having overtime available. I get what you're saying, it does get better but it should be 40k just based on min guarantee. Again, don't get me wrong I went to XJT when we had west coast bases and would probably still be there if I wasn't furloughed, so I made the choice as well. I'm not criticizing that choice at all, I'm just tossing the numbers out there that I know.
 
ppragman said:
It is possible to make "good" money - even in your first few years of flying.
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Very true. I got hired at 250tt at my current gig, and in this first year alone I am on track to take home well over $30k. It is not the greatest money in the world, but at the same time I am not living on ramen. I can still live comfortably. But at the same time I work really hard for my money. Both physically and mentally. On the plus side if I stay with the company for a while I can make some decent money doing this job.
 
TFaudree_ERAU said:
I think you forgot the part about the guys at the majors saying they were too good to fly 50 seat RJs.
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Largely urban legend. I was around the regionals when the first barrage of RJ's came and I remember exactly zero of my cronies at the majors saying "No thanks, too small"

Especially my current employer. Those things were going to the regionals whether we liked it or not and had no choice, no option and (giggle) no one asked as it was allowed under the scope clause anyway.

I think it's best if we nip the revisionist history in the bud, look at where we are today and strike forward to improve it.
 
PositionAndHold said:
So show us your numbers? I ask as an honest question, not trying to be a smart ass. Based on a 75hr guarantee and APC's SkyWest's pay scales I come up with; first year FO 19,800, second year FO 27,900 to 35,100, third year FO 28,800 to 36,900, fourth year FO 29,700 to 38,700. The different pay scale represent the low being the EMB-120 and the high being the CRJ900. Those numbers all are pretty far away from 40k. Plus after the second year pay raise, its a dollar an hour a year until year eight when the FO pay scale tops out. Except for the CRJ900 is around two dollars an hour a year. Now I understand there's overtime, and extra flying to be done to get your pay up higher. Not everyone can work overtime and they could take it away or cut it back at any time, so you can't plan your finances on always having overtime available. I get what you're saying, it does get better but it should be 40k just based on min guarantee. Again, don't get me wrong I went to XJT when we had west coast bases and would probably still be there if I wasn't furloughed, so I made the choice as well. I'm not criticizing that choice at all, I'm just tossing the numbers out there that I know.
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Average line values are already near 90 hours right now, it's not hard to get that last ten hours of credit.
 
jtrain609 said:
Average line values are already near 90 hours right now, it's not hard to get that last ten hours of credit.
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What Jtrain said. I mostly fly the 700, which also has an override. Credit always exceeds block. We also get performance (after 1 year) and financial (after 2 years) bonuses. I would also include per diem if comparing to Ameriflight, as they don't get that unless on TDY from what I understand. That's easily a few hundred per month.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Average credit for an AirTran pilot used to be 95.8 hours per month. Then along came the purple Tex-ass monster, and now everyone struggles to break guarantee. Never depend upon or budget for money over guarantee. It can always disappear.
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Preach it, sister. Been on the receiving end of that one lots.
 
Idk pack on a state college loan $25-40k flight training $30-60k and then first yr pay with apartment, living expenses, loan payments etc. the only way to get that "most holy" jet job is to hold a degree. With loan payments holding most Americans in the mud these days, seems like that increase in wages with jet time may seem valid however it's offset with the amount of debt to get there. Provided you don't defer any loan payments. I'm a pilot not a doctor. I laugh when i hear pilot profession is considered a trade...
 
If kids just graduating are unable to afford their federal loan payments on any salary under the new pay are you earn criteria, well, you couldn't afford to eat anyway.
 
I am making a general assumption people did all his or her homework before sinking a Titanic load of money in a career/job in which many will never see a position at a legacy or any other position in which to pay his or her debts off.
 
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