flying with a rude copilot

Derg said:
I can assure you that if that happened to me, it would lead to a "keep your seat, leave the cockpit door closed, let's have a chat" conversation after blocking in.

And I've had that.

It's kind of awkward, I felt like poop afterward, but after that everything went swimmingly.
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Oh, we did. It only sent her farther over the edge. I even tried to get the CP and professional standards involved later in the trip as things escalated but our CP at the time was weak and ALPA was no help either. I was hardly the only captain who wrote her up and I understand she is on almost everyone's no fly list as a captain. She is very similar to the SWA 345 captain.
 
Blackhawk said:
So yeah, I brief the FO and let him/her know I'm pretty much by the book. First it lets them know, second I emphasize that if I'm not doing something the way the company wants they need to speak up- and I emphasize that, especially to newer pilots. I'm not perfect. I may have missed a change, may miss something, may forget something. There WILL be mistakes on every leg, the trick is to catch them, minimize them, and not let them result in a UAS (Undesired Aircraft State). As I tell them, 1. Safety 2. Keeping our jobs/tickets 3. Customer service 4. Make the company money 5. Have fun/make the commute flight home.
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That brief I appreciate, and that comes from a good captain. What I mean is captains who throw out general phrases to try and paint a rosy picture of themselves before I get a chance to really see how they are. If all they say is "You don't need to worry I'm by the book. I'm laid back, and I'm not one of those guys that's uptight," then I have my doubts... Right or wrong. I always give them the benefit of the doubt like I said. Along with what you say, I usually tell the Captain the same thing, or even if he doesn't say anything I will say something. "If you see me doing something different, wrong, or I forget something please let me know."
 
JustinS said:
That brief I appreciate, and that comes from a good captain. What I mean is captains who throw out general phrases to try and paint a rosy picture of themselves before I get a chance to really see how they are. If all they say is "You don't need to worry I'm by the book. I'm laid back, and I'm not one of those guys that's uptight," then I have my doubts... Right or wrong. I always give them the benefit of the doubt like I said. Along with what you say, I usually tell the Captain the same thing, or even if he doesn't say anything I will say something. "If you see me doing something different, wrong, or I forget something please let me know."
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I really hate the term "laid back". As an FO it meant I had no clue what the captain would do. What in the world does it mean??? Have fun? Ok. I'm fine with that, but safety, keeping my job/ticket, customer service and making money come first. It usually meant "I have no clue or don't care what's in the OM/FOM." As an FO I much preferred the grumpy captain who actually used a checklist verses the "laid back" captain who did things his own way and didn't believe in wearing headsets. Nothing like not wearing a headset with a 15' prop spinning next to your head for 8 hours.
 
Blackhawk said:
I really hate the term "laid back". As an FO it meant I had no clue what the captain would do. What in the world does it mean??? Have fun? Ok. I'm fine with that, but safety, keeping my job/ticket, customer service and making money come first. It usually meant "I have no clue or don't care what's in the OM/FOM." As an FO I much preferred the grumpy captain who actually used a checklist verses the "laid back" captain who did things his own way and didn't believe in wearing headsets. Nothing like not wearing a headset with a 15' prop spinning next to your head for 8 hours.
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Any time someone doesn't want to wear a headset I just keep mine on.
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
Also another cockpit question, in general. What if the FO wants to hand fly to "___", but the Captain says no. Does Captain authority win in that situation?
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Always. He probably has a reason. When departing Florida on weekends, because of GA traffic I ask the FO to use the autopilot to 10K. Watch someone when they hand fly, their eyes never leave the panel.
 
We had a guy recently from ExpressJet come to our shop. He went behind everyone's back, sending ASAP reports about things without informing the Captain. He very quickly became known as "The Note Taker" because he wrote notes about every Captain he flew with, usually turning them into ASAP's. I did one turn with him(after another more senior captain refused to fly with him). It was a short flight and I didn't have any problem with him, no notes were taken on me that I saw. But it made the phone call from the chief pilot a week later tough. I wanted to throw the guy under the bus, but I couldn't, which is what I told the CP in so many words.

I suppose he blended in more at a bigger carrier, but with only 260 pilots, he wasn't going to last long here with that kind of mentality. It wasn't so much that he was wrong, just the way he went about proving he was right and his attitude which was wrong. I heard that he was asked to resign sometime last week.

I've only been in the left seat a short time. Most FO's are pretty good. I've seen different techniques to arrive at the same conclusion and I only make suggestions when it could be a problem down the line. As long as you don't scare me and do your job, I've got no issues with you.
 
Richman said:
Long sleeves, boys and girls, is the universal warning sign.

Like an inflated blowfish, a hissing cat, or a rattling snake, it's nature's way of saying "do not approach".

Richman
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Hey! I fly a turboprop with no APU in the Northeast. I need sleeves for warmth in the winter, I'm not doing the sweater thing. I will counter with this with "The Hat" versus the sleeves, especially at a shop where the hat is not mandatory. I know hat usage is a touchy subject, but for anecdotal purposes, many of the people who wore a hat at my company were the obnoxious ones. But many of them have moved on, so what do I know?
 
Max Power said:
Exactly. I have ANR headsets for a reason and you using the uncomfortable $100 headset from your private pilot days isn't my problem. Especially when your private pilot days were ten years ago.
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Just proving the theory that pilots are cheap... Some would rather work with subpar equipment than shell out some real coin for a properly working professional, comfortable, hearing protecting headset. I've seen it too... It baffles me...
 
JustinS said:
So much truth in this thread. The undertone of personal dynamics in the cockpit can really make or break a good trip. You can have a crappy trip with an awesome crew, and it's an awesome trip. You can have a sweet trip you've been looking forward to flying be with a crappy crew, and the trip is crap.

Anytime I hear "I'm super laid back," "I'm very by the book," or "I'm not one of those guys that you have to worry about XYZ." More often then not are all the things opposite of what they say to varying degrees.... Sometimes they're right, but most of the time not. After I hear a captain say those types of things I always give them the benefit of the doubt, and I'm almost always dissapointed. The ones who just do their job and don't make those types of statements tend to be more like those supporting statements. I have no idea WHY, but it's just too true to ignore.
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Typically speaking, if a guy has to say those things ("I'm super laid back, I'm very by the book" etc) chances are they are exactly opposite of this. The ones that are cool don't have to say anything, it just shows.
 
Derg said:
Oh lord no.

The only person who would be taken affront by a probationary pilot speaking up on an operational concern would be a extremely weak assed captain.

Speak up, with passion. If I don't concur, we will look it up and see what the boss-man says to do in that scenario.

But if you give me a "Well, back at Endeavor we would do", you're buying all the beers that evening. #TrueStory
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Next walkaround, tell them you got a bonus question that if they get right, you'll buy 'em dinner. Ask them, "what's missing on the nose?" Tell 'em to go look carefully, all angles, nose and front section of the aircraft.

Most likely they will come in and say they couldn't find anything wrong and nothing is missing on the nose.

That's when you say, "the thing missing on the nose is "operated by Endeavor."


Drop mic. Now sit down, shut yer trap, and do it the Delta way :)
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
What's DL's procedure about hand flying?

Also another cockpit question, in general. What if the FO wants to hand fly to "___", but the Captain says no. Does Captain authority win in that situation?
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You are to maintain proficiency in all levels off automation. From totally decoupled to totally coupled.

There's been a strong emphasis on hand flying lately in particular.

The captain would win in that situation, but I've never encountered it. If you're hand flying and they are having to work too hard with the radios and managing the flight guidance, normally people will hook it up to relieve them.

I did encounter a guy like that at Pinnacle. He was a total mess overall though and got fired a few months later. To this day, he's the only guy I've ever called pro standards about.
 
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