Flying VFR through the Lemoore MOA

C-182 flyer

Well-Known Member
Please go around or under the Lemoore MOA when you are flying in the central valley. Realize that A,D, and E go down to 5k ft and this is where jets may be conducting BFM and their vertical velocity may exceed 20k FPM. I know it is legal to fly through, and everyone is responsible for maintaining lookout, but in a BFM engagement, the 2 jets are only concentrating on each other and their radars are not out in front of them. It may cost a little more time and money, but that is better than getting hit by a Hornet. It is pretty aggravating when you get a call that their is a King Air at 9.5k, 2 miles away and you have to knock it off as he flies right under you with no idea of how dangerous it is to be there. At least just ask what is going on so that everyone can work together.
 
This could get touchy

Why should it get touchy? Because of the crowd that always shows up with the "its my RIGHT to fly through a MOA!!!". What they don't realize is that thats not the question at hand. The question should be simply some common sense applied by aircraft that aren't participating in the MOA. Remember, there's a difference between "I CAN fly through there" versus "Should I fly through there?" It's never an all or nothing answer though. As usual, it depends.

First off, flight planning. Know where you're going and whats on your route. Know what MOAs or MTRs are around there (MTRs for low level). Second, check the NOTAMS. If the particular MOA or MTR isn't active that day or time you're going to head through, then the hazard potential is vastly lowered. Third, if it is active, go to a Sectional to where the MOA list is, and find out what the dimensions of the MOA are. For all you know, it may not go to the surface or even near it, so by flying under it you won't even be going through it anyway. If you HAVE to go through it during a time its active, know that you NEED to be on your toes see-and-avoid wise, as the traffic you'll likely encounter won't be your normal everyday traffic coming at you from straight and level.

In short, do some homework on the ground prior to just tooling through one of these SUAs.

Years ago, I was flying a low level along VR-239 north of PHX. Cruising at 480 KIAS and 300-500 AGL, I was doing the standard clock/map/ground as I navigated along and around the terrain on the route. Coming around turn point 4, I happened to spot, by luck, a Cessna 177 doing what appeared to be turns on/around a point at low level.....standard training. Glad I spotted him earlier, and no problem making a deviation around him, but had I not spotted him, it could've been a close call or worse. He was likely concentrating on his airwork, as I was mainly concentrating on map/ground, so it's even more luck that one of us spotted the other. I don't know if he ever saw me, but I doubt it, since I was at his 6-7 o'clock when I first spotted him, and lagged around his six to pass him by a good margin as he completed his left turn.

IMO, practicing airwork in a MOA or along a known MTR, anything where training is going on and full attention can't be maintained to the outside, is potential trouble waiting to happen IF one doesn't do their homework as I mentioned above.

Military Training Routes are usually never in "military-only areas" such as Restricted Areas, etc. As military pilots, we train like we fight; and if that means a 450 knot low-level ingress to a target, then that's what we do. There's a reason that MTRs in the USA are depicted on Sectional Aeronautical Charts and the US AP-1/B chart; that's so civilian pilots can plan around them, and either avoid them, or be able to be VERY heads-up if they must fly near them. When I say "must fly near them", I'm referring to some MTRs which come within (due to terrain) some small private, uncontrolled airstrips, such as those near ranches, etc. In these instances, civilians need to go in/out of these fields, and knowing the status of a particular MTR near you is important.

It's perfectly legal to fly through/in MOAs and along MTRs, but as I mentioned before, that's not the question. As you know, in VMC, it's everyone's responsibility to see and avoid. The question is, once you've done your homework and found out that the particular SUA is active, is is it smart or prudent to head through it if unable to avoid? And, can everybody see and avoid?

Here's a good example of the problem from my end as a military pilot, insofar as my ability and limitations to seeing and avoiding: In the A-10, I had no radar for my low-levels, my only separation ability comes from the Mk.1 eyeball. Keep in mind, though, that I have a multitude of cockpit tasks going on while tooling along at 300 AGL/360 KIAS. First, eyeing terrain to make sure I'm doing my job of pilotage correctly (ie- matching terrain features with what's on my map to make sure I'm going the right way), avoiding hitting the ground/power lines/near rocks/far rocks, keeping track of my timing per leg [if I'm going for a specific TOT, or Time Over Target], keeping track of my other aircraft in my formation, insuring my weapons panel is set correctly [such as setup change from air-air to air-ground], going over and over in my mind what the attack plan is [formation, role, weapon, timing, attack axis], and being ready to flex to a different plan if the first one gets screwed up [such as unplanned threats pop-up], and maintaining overall SA over the operation; all while moving at 300 AGL/360 KIAS; and all this in addition to trying to see and avoid. Truth be told, we really expect (hope) that civilian pilots won't be in our path because they HAVE done the necessary pre-planning for their flights. Even in radar equipped fighters, the pilot isn't sitting with his head in his scope while tooling along at low level, so he may not notice civilian hits on his scope. In addition, some radars are even programmed to negate hits below certain airspeeds, in order to reduce the scope clutter. Also, at the speeds mentioned, I'm moving @6 miles/minute (A-10), or 8-9 miles/minute (other fighters); a Cessna 152 would probable be visibly detectable for only a couple of seconds before I flashed past it. Point? Everyone practice the best see-and-avoid they can; but also civilian pilots should be aware of where Military Training Routes are and, preferably, avoid them. Military pilots should know what their route structure is, and remain within it.

So contrary to popular belief, the biggest onus for midair collision avoidance in a MOA or MTR isn't going to be the participants, it's going to be the non-participating civilian plane cruising through fat/dumb/happy. And thats not talking legally, its talking realistically. Plan accordingly.
 
Is there any way to see if a MTR is going to be active for that day? I live right under one (VR92/VR58 in SE TN) and am very cautious when flying in my area, because between the Navy T-39's coming through 3-4 times a week (sometimes more than once per day), and the fighters & heavies, it seems pretty active. I think every airframe has traveled that route from the years of living there and seeing them come through.
 
I must admit that my company probably conducts training flights through the Lemoore MOA's everyday on cross countries. Having the MOA's covering the entire central valley makes it sort of inconvienient to avoid. We always have flight following and typically cruise either 4500' or 5500' on the typical flight. Don't you military guys talk to Showtime while conducting airwork in the MOA to help with collision avoidance?
 
Is there any way to see if a MTR is going to be active for that day? I live right under one (VR92/VR58 in SE TN) and am very cautious when flying in my area, because between the Navy T-39's coming through 3-4 times a week (sometimes more than once per day), and the fighters & heavies, it seems pretty active. I think every airframe has traveled that route from the years of living there and seeing them come through.

MTRs are scheduled through the Wing scheduling office of the base that owns the particular MTR. They generally coordinate with the local FSS for the usage times. Aircraft entering/exiting an MTR coordinate with the local FSS, so the FSS is the place to call in order to find out the status of an MTR. Only problem is, that FSS or even local ARTCC likely won't know where a particular plane is located on a VR MTR, just that they entered at such and such time and haven't exited yet. For an IR route though, ARTCC should know the location of the aircraft.
 
I must admit that my company probably conducts training flights through the Lemoore MOA's everyday on cross countries. Having the MOA's covering the entire central valley makes it sort of inconvienient to avoid. We always have flight following and typically cruise either 4500' or 5500' on the typical flight. Don't you military guys talk to Showtime while conducting airwork in the MOA to help with collision avoidance?

And sometimes they can't be avoided. Lemoore B/C MOAs seem pretty high, whereas the D/E are fairly low. ATC radar isnt always the best for collision avoidance, since with jets making rapid climbs and descents, the altitude info on the ATC radar lags, as well as targets plots being merged. The best thing they can provide is a heads-up that a civilian aircraft is approaching, pending they see it on their radar. So long as you do your homework regarding these places and understand the risk, then thats the next best mitigator to avoiding them altogether.
 
For the MOA, yes. For MTRs, its FSS.

Actually the only time I've ever gone through Lemoore was late at night and I was the only one around. "Showtime" and I actually had a pretty good conversation. ;)

I typically go around, since going through isn't that much shorter, but that night it was -6 and heater in the Duchess didn't work ;)
 
Actually the only time I've ever gone through Lemoore was late at night and I was the only one around. "Showtime" and I actually had a pretty good conversation. ;)

I typically go around, since going through isn't that much shorter, but that night it was -6 and heater in the Duchess didn't work ;)

Exactly. When a MOA is cold, its as if it doesn't exist. No more of a safety factor going through there than flying through the middle of nowhere at those times.
 
I must admit that my company probably conducts training flights through the Lemoore MOA's everyday on cross countries. Having the MOA's covering the entire central valley makes it sort of inconvienient to avoid. We always have flight following and typically cruise either 4500' or 5500' on the typical flight. Don't you military guys talk to Showtime while conducting airwork in the MOA to help with collision avoidance?

Everyone has to talk to Showtime while using the MOA, but Showtime is not the "A team" of special use airspace controllers if you know what I mean. At 4.5k, you are not in the MOA, and military traffic should not go below it. For BFM in the MOA 6k is the hard deck, but post knock it off, the pilots will descend as low as 5k to get airspeed for the climb back up so you don't burn all your gas in the climb. The other areas B and C, only go the 13k and 16k, so it is easy enough to fly underneath. Think about this too, some of those guys flying Hornets in the MOA may only have 250 hours total time and are hanging onto the stabs, they are not really looking for other traffic or doing a good job running the radar. There have been plenty of close calls, and in many of those I don't think the civilian pilot even knew what had happened, this leads most guys fill out an ASAP report after most flights but I don't think that goes anywhere.
 
I've had the pleasure of taking a couple civilian pilots on incentive flights in both the F-15E and the T-38 (the flights were for other reasons, but they happened to also be pilots for pleasure on the side).

To a T, every one I flew (as well as others I didn't fly but whom I spoke with afterward) later said something to the effect of 'I'll never fly through a MOA again' after seeing what takes place inside them from the perspective of one of those participating aircraft.

None of those sorties even had all of the moving parts of an LFE or another complicated training exercise that had to be stopped, re set-up, and (if fuel and time allowed) re-executed because of non-participating VFR traffic flying through the play area. Thanks for the fuel, time, and training lost, dudes! Hope your fuel savings or flexing your 'rights' was worth it! :)
 
The only problem I have with the MOAs is flying through them cold, get right to the middle, and ATC calls "the MOA is going hot in 5 minutes." Well.... I'm not going to be able to get clear. I do turn for the closest border, but last time, there were two of us in the MOA, 5 minute warning, and neither of us got clear before the military aircraft checked in.

I don't know how the planning is executed, but us slow guys need a little more warning. :)
 
The only problem I have with the MOAs is flying through them cold, get right to the middle, and ATC calls "the MOA is going hot in 5 minutes." Well.... I'm not going to be able to get clear. I do turn for the closest border, but last time, there were two of us in the MOA, 5 minute warning, and neither of us got clear before the military aircraft checked in.

I don't know how the planning is executed, but us slow guys need a little more warning. :)
I've had this happen before! Another one that sucks is you're about 30 mins out from the MOA

You: blablablacenter is the moa hot?
center: Negative

you whistle along about 5 minutes from the MOA

all aircraft advise moa bvlalanlabla going hot

AO(RHI!HRHI(WF(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Sometimes, scheduled aircraft show up early for their MOA time. But if you are transiting a cold MOA, and its about to go hot in 5 minutes, then its not reasonable for anyone to expect you to automatically be out of there. Ive had it happen before, and I would just ask ATC to let me know the altitude of the civil traffic, and I'd keep my flight at minimum of 1000' deck above them, and just let me know when they're clear. I fully understand it'll take some time for someone to clear the area, and I have zero problem with that. I don't expect someone to head out the nearest area, continue on course and when you're out, you're out. I'm just glad that we each know where the other are or I at least know where the civil traffic is, and that the civil traffic was at least talking to someone while transiting the MOA, even though he's not required to.
 
The only problem I have with the MOAs is flying through them cold, get right to the middle, and ATC calls "the MOA is going hot in 5 minutes." Well.... I'm not going to be able to get clear. I do turn for the closest border, but last time, there were two of us in the MOA, 5 minute warning, and neither of us got clear before the military aircraft checked in.

I don't know how the planning is executed, but us slow guys need a little more warning. :)

Hey, if you are in a MOA when someone checks in, that's the way it is, there is nothing else you can do but just continue and the military guys will just have to wait if they can't make it work with you there. I see Alabama coast under your name, I would be more scared flying through the MOAs around Milton, FL than the Lemoore MOA because Milton is where primary flight training is conducted and those guys might be solo students with about 15 hours total time out on an aerobatic solo. I haven't flown with any primary students, but what I remember is when I was a student, I was more more worried about being on altitude and airspeed so that I got better grades rather than looking for other traffic. Just to piggyback on what MikeD said, a lot of the MOAs do not go to the surface, and it is easy to fly below them with a little planning.

I was a civilian pilot in my prior life and flew though MOAs without thinking twice about it, knowing what I know now about what goes on on a MOA, I would not fly through one without verifying exactly what was going on.
 
I've had the pleasure of taking a couple civilian pilots on incentive flights in both the F-15E and the T-38 (the flights were for other reasons, but they happened to also be pilots for pleasure on the side).

To a T, every one I flew (as well as others I didn't fly but whom I spoke with afterward) later said something to the effect of 'I'll never fly through a MOA again' after seeing what takes place inside them from the perspective of one of those participating aircraft.


I believe that I would have a different opinion. When should we go up so that I can prove you and those pansies wrong? Just to be sure, I'm going to request that we go up in the F-15....
 
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