Flying the LDA-A at LGA

S

smig

Well-Known Member
Here is a question I'd like some opinions on. When flying the LDA-A at LGA, and landing runway 22 (assume VMC conditions, however you were NOT cleared for a visual approach), what is the earliest point you can break of the LDA and line up with the extended centerline for runway 22?

I have always been under the impression that you are required to fly the loc course until within the circling radius. I see many pilots however breaking off the loc at 7 miles out. I have never heard any of these guys getting any flak from ATC about it but the AIM says you are expected to stay on the loc course (remember we are not cleared for the visual in this scenario) Is there something is writing that says you can break of the loc course sooner than the circling radius?

http://www.scribd.com/doc/13016411/LIDLGA-LDAA-0903

AIM 5-4-3 (b)(d)...When established inbound on the final approach course, radar separation will be maintained and the pilot will be expected to complete the approach utilizing the approach aid designated in the clearance (ILS, MLS, VOR, radio beacons, etc.) as the primary means of navigation. Therefore, once established on the final approach course, pilots must not deviate from it unless a clearance to do so is received from ATC.
 
If it was IMC, when would you break off the localizer to align with the runway? Probably when you have the runway in sight. Correct?

Why should it be any different in VMC?
 
When you are flying a circling APP you wait till your category circling minimi till you circle to your runway of intended landing. You weren't cleared for the visual you were cleared for the LDA-A circle to land thus you fly that procedure.

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0906/00128LDAC.PDF

If you pulled those shenanigans on this APP circling to 23 you would get yourself killed. The circling minimi guarantee you 300 obstacle clearance inside the circling arcs.
 
It's been a few years but as I remember more often than not, they gave you the LDA in VFR wx for noise. To keep you mostly over the water and they used to gripe about breaking off the approach to align early.

This was the fun one. Be just a bit high or fast on this one and you had a choice of an unstable approach or a go-around.

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0906/00443LDAD19.PDF
 
smig said:
Here is a question I'd like some opinions on. When flying the LDA-A at LGA, and landing runway 22 (assume VMC conditions, however you were NOT cleared for a visual approach), what is the earliest point you can break of the LDA and line up with the extended centerline for runway 22?
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Orange Anchor said:
It's been a few years but as I remember more often than not, they gave you the LDA in VFR wx for noise. To keep you mostly over the water and they used to gripe about breaking off the approach to align early.
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Over the water is were they want you to line up with the runway. To tell you the truth I just put in the ILS and stay over the river.
 
Gonzo said:
Over the water is were they want you to line up with the runway. To tell you the truth I just put in the ILS and stay over the river.
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I'm surprised they haven't whined about that. We've tried to call the airport in sight only to have them tell us to stay on the LDA.

That said, yeah, over the water about three miles out is when I start to line up.
 
smig said:
Here is a question I'd like some opinions on. When flying the LDA-A at LGA, and landing runway 22 (assume VMC conditions, however you were NOT cleared for a visual approach), what is the earliest point you can break of the LDA and line up with the extended centerline for runway 22?
Click to expand...

I had the same question and had the same thought as to when to circle. I asked a bunch of CA's and none of them knew or had a concrete answer. Some mentioned the staying over water for noise bit but that wouldn't be the official FAA answer. I'm glad you posted this, I was actually going to post it in the controller forum but forgot.

Circling Approaches

Landing minimums listed on the approach chart under
“CIRCLING” apply when it is necessary to circle the airport,
maneuver for landing, or when no straight-in minimums are
specifi ed on the approach chart. [Figure 10-11]

The circling minimums published on the instrument approach
chart provide a minimum of 300 feet of obstacle clearance in
the circling area. [Figure 10-12] During a circling approach,
the pilot should maintain visual contact with the runway of
intended landing and fly no lower than the circling minimums
until positioned to make a final descent for a landing. It is
important to remember that circling minimums are only
minimums. If the ceiling allows it, fly at an altitude that
more nearly approximates VFR traffic pattern altitude. This
will make any maneuvering safer and bring the view of the
landing runway into a more normal perspective.

Chapters 8-11 Instrument Flying Handbook pg 10-20
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Notice they don't mention on when to commence the circle however. Figure 10-12 attached below.
 
Seems like every time we get that in VMC ATC either tells us to square it up or fly to the numbers. In IMC I've only done the ILS.
 
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