Flying pattern without Airspeed Indicator

High_Alpha said:
Really, t-cart? So an Evektor SportStar, a Pitts, a Skyhawk, a Malibu, a Husky and a Duchess have the same types of power settings and visual cues in the pattern?
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In t-carts defense, a pilot at my local non-towered field took his friends mooney for a trip around the patter. Leaving all would'a/should'a aside, it became quickly apparent that the pitot tube cover was still on, and airspeed would not be provided for this flight. Now the owner was on the plane, and told him the power setting. 1st time flying this plane. The landing was a non event, and all was well. This guy normaly pilots cubs and luscombes. The same piloting skills worked in a mooney.
 
High_Alpha said:
Really, t-cart? So an Evektor SportStar, a Pitts, a Skyhawk, a Malibu, a Husky and a Duchess have the same types of power settings and visual cues in the pattern?
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Power settings, no, but those are only one way you "feel" the airplane in the pattern. As far as the visual cues are concerned, 100kts in a Cessna looks suspiciously like 100kts in a Pitts.
 
High_Alpha said:
Really, t-cart? So an Evektor SportStar, a Pitts, a Skyhawk, a Malibu, a Husky and a Duchess have the same types of power settings and visual cues in the pattern?
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I didnt say anything about power settings,or visual cues in the pattern,I was just disputing the fact that you said it cant be done.What about the example given in another post about the guy going with the pitot cover on. If you think that you cant fly the plane,and land it,and takeoff, without this stuff then you are sadly mistaken.P.S.,and i am quite sure that this guy wasnt the first,and wont be the last. FLY SAFE T.C.
 
Just like someone said before, Known power setting + Known Attitude = Known Performance.

I think a bad pilot would have a tough time flying a pattern without an airspeed indicator, a competent pilot would be able accomplish this abnormality with little problem.

As others have done as instructors, I used to cover the ASI from before takeoff to touchdown. There are just so many cues (Visual, sound, tactile) that students don't realize are at their disposal. In addition, this maneuver would lead to a relevant systems question. "Do we have any stall warning protection without the airspeed indicator, will the stall warning horn still work?"
 
t-cart said:
I didnt say anything about power settings,or visual cues in the pattern,I was just disputing the fact that you said it cant be done.What about the example given in another post about the guy going with the pitot cover on. If you think that you cant fly the plane,and land it,and takeoff, without this stuff then you are sadly mistaken.P.S.,and i am quite sure that this guy wasnt the first,and wont be the last. FLY SAFE T.C.
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If there weren't a pilot with experience on the Mooney aboard, I think it might have been a bit different. I doubt you can set a 172 RPM and hope for a good landing in a Mooney.....

The original question was "is being able to land with a broken ASI a measure of how good a pilot you are." I still say "No." It mentioned nothing about a list and 90% of things on the list making you a good pilot (I'd be more inclined to agree with that, depending on what the list said). I agree that covering up the ASI during training and having students land without it is a good practice. Heck, I did that to my students when I was an instructor. But it still doesn't mean that if you can land without an ASI you're a good pilot. Just like being able to fly down a LOC with less than a 1/4 dot deflection means you're a good pilot. There are WAAAY too many variables out there. For example, the guy flying the LOC might have to go missed b/c he decided to go flying to an airport where the WX was OVC100 with 1/4 SM vis. Sure he can fly the plane, but his decision making skills just got him in hot water.
 
P&H said:
It's easy just use known RPMs.
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BUUZZZ!! :)

Power settings are only a reference. If you have strong headwinds or strong tailwinds... your power settings will be way off. Another reason why flying a pattern with the A/s indicator inop is not an appropriate way to tell if you're a good pilot. Wind noise and pitch would be more reliable than a power setting.

I reference, and only reference 1.03-5 EPR in the 757 and 5000 pounds of fuel per hour in the 767.... those are just a starting point to make sure I'm spooled... not to fly final.
 
Baronman said:
You my friend need to re-read my post more carefully.
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yep, sorry. I guess when you speed read through these post you misread stuff sometimes. I just wanted to make sure that no one out there thinks the ASI is a part of the stall warning system. Safe flying!
 
subpilot said:
yep, sorry. I guess when you speed read through these post you misread stuff sometimes. I just wanted to make sure that no one out there thinks the ASI is a part of the stall warning system. Safe flying!
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No harm no foul....God knows I know how those things work...I use to suck on that frikin' Katana one to clear it out all the time ;-)

Although this ASI thing reminds me of some accident from a few years back of a charter 757 (Alas Nacionales 1996). Basically the Captain's airspeed indicator was inop resulting in the autothrust system and flight guidance getting faulty information. The aircraft computers thought the plane was overspeeding and corrected accordingly, however the aircraft was slowing. Obviously on more complex aircraft the stall awareness systems do rely on correct air data.
 
I can only speak for the SAAB 340 but the stall warning system on that aircraft works off of angle of attack vains so if the airspeed system was inop for whatever reason you would still recieve a stall warning (stick shaker/pusher).
 
When you're really comfortable with a certain kind of airplane you learn to maintain airspeed by sound. If I was on approach with a student, I'd know to check the airspeed indicator if it started to sound strange. Cool stuff.
 
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