Flying pattern without Airspeed Indicator

tommychuck

tommychuck

New Member
There was an article in this month's AOPA Pilot called "Am I a good pilot?"

There were a bunch of different things it asked in there. Here's one I thought was interesting.

"Can you fly a complete traffic pattern with the airspeed indicator covered?"

I imagine this is a "feel" thing. I'm a low time pilot but I sure do watch that AI closely- especially on short final.

Is this a fair assessment of a good pilot? I guess you could use other indicators like attitude, tach, sound of wind, VSI, etc.
 
tommychuck said:
Is this a fair assessment of a good pilot? I guess you could use other indicators like attitude, tach, sound of wind, VSI, etc.
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Nope. I don't think it's a fair assessment. A guy can fly a traffic pattern without an ASI, but he might slam it into the ground or float for miles. But, since he flew the pattern he's a good pilot? I don't agree with that. It's more of a sight picture thing that's gonna go out the window if you fly another plane. For example, you can fly the TP without the ASI in a 172, but you're gonna be all over the place in an Arrow or a Warrior b/c the sight picture is different, the engines are different, the pitch trim is different, etc, etc.
 
kellwolf said:
Nope. I don't think it's a fair assessment. A guy can fly a traffic pattern without an ASI, but he might slam it into the ground or float for miles. But, since he flew the pattern he's a good pilot? I don't agree with that. It's more of a sight picture thing that's gonna go out the window if you fly another plane. For example, you can fly the TP without the ASI in a 172, but you're gonna be all over the place in an Arrow or a Warrior b/c the sight picture is different, the engines are different, the pitch trim is different, etc, etc.
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:yeahthat:I really dont think that is a good indicator of being a good pilot or not.If you fly a particular plane long enough,you will develop a "feel"for it.In my ag flying,I was taught from day one to "keep my head out of the cocpit".Flew that way for many,many years.Then,as soon as i started on the instrument rating,I was in trouble.I think it probablly took me longer than a low time guy,because while i was not necessarily breaking old habits,I was having to adapt to new ways of aircraft control.Just using Kell as an example,I bet he feels a lot more comfortable in the jet that he flys,rather than the 172 that he used to fly.A good pilot to me is one that is safe,doesnt abuse the airplane,makes sure the thing is airworthy,is courteous(plays well with the other planes in proximity to him)and trys his or her best not to scare his passengers. FLY SAFE T.C.
 
It's easy just use known RPMs. I used to make students who kept their heads in the cockpit too much do this sometimes. It wasn't as bad as when I used to randomly turn up the screeching on the ADF to distract them on short final. Drop pens, whatever.

I don't think its an indicator of a good pilot. But I think being able to do it without much trouble shows some experience and comfort in the airplane. It's just a confidence builder more than anything else.
 
I used to cover instruments on newish students just to watch them freak out (or if that didn't do it I had other ways to make them freak out).

Freak outs are a good experience builder for the student (better to experience one with me in the plane than solo).

They're also a good evaluation tool for the instructor.

IMC freakouts were priceless!

"The AI is broken"
"no its not, the TC is level too"
"but we're sideways to the right"
"no we're not and don't you dare turn left" :D

Ahh I miss instructing sometimes...
 
t-cart said:
Just using Kell as an example,I bet he feels a lot more comfortable in the jet that he flys,rather than the 172 that he used to fly.
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Oh god. I'd kill myself if I were to get in a 172 without an instructor right now..


"You're flaring too high! You're WAAAY fast, ya know! No, we don't have flight spoilers."
 
Pitch + power = attitude flying. It will get you down in one piece if the asi goes out. You might find a long runway if you can. My biggest worry would be exceeding vfe.
 
I almost soloed some guys with their attitude indicator's and airspeed indicators covered up. They flew BETTER when they stopped fixating on instruments inside the aircraft and simply looked outside and flew the airplane. Anytime I'd peak under the covers to make sure they were doing things correctly they always had their airspeeds NAILED.
 
kellwolf said:
Oh god. I'd kill myself if I were to get in a 172 without an instructor right now..


"You're flaring too high! You're WAAAY fast, ya know! No, we don't have flight spoilers."
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"Why are you still pointed at the numbers?....FLARE....FLARE....MY CONTROLS! This is not an RJ!"
 
I've had the ASI in a Piper Arrow lag about 15kts too slow. I remember when we were coming into KCLW at around 75kts and the stall warning horn would go off. After we realized that the ASI was lagging, my instructor kept me flying with it like that to gain a feel for the airplane without the ASI.
 
I used to "fail" the cockpit lighting and landing lights at night just after rotation. Mostly this was with students who had a bit of time in the plane so they could just listen a figure out if things sounded right. They did tend to fly a fast pattern though.
 
I think this is a very good way to test a pilot’s skill. Many things will clue you in to the speed the plane is making including the RPMs, wind noise, responsiveness of the controls and so on. When my younger brother was having difficulty learning to land a Mooney one of the things I did to help him with his speed control was to fail the airspeed indicator. When done properly this is a great way to expand a pilot’s skill. Of course, like anything else in this business if you let it go too far you'll end up a smoking hole.

It all comes down to judgement.
 
flying the pattern without the AS indicator is a great way to expand your skills as mentioned above. i think its important pilots challenge themselves to continually be able to do more with less.

now on a side note, if he/she can fly the pattern with just the trim wheel and the kicking the doors open doors (i'm assuming this is a small cessna product, not suggested for a 310) then i'll be impressed :)

tip: goose some power right before you land for the flare, as well as swinging that trim wheel
 
I loved to unfold a checklist over the entire 6-pack abeam the numbers. Trim, pitch and rpm are all you need.

And I agree that this applies to a certain airplane, to build confidence and teach that whole "pitch+power=performance" concept. If you get in an airplane you've never flown, you can't do this no matter how good you are.
 
My short stint teaching Private Pilots in a 172, I would have them fly the pattern with the ASI covered up all the time. I believe in teaching initial students how to FLY the airplane, not fly guages. I have more of an old school teaching method that I adapted from a good friend and DE.

I never had a real problem with students doing that. You're teaching them to become aware of the speed of the aircraft by outside references and feel. As far as floating or slamming it on the ground, it was never really a problem when I taught this way because in the 172 fully configured and trimmed with the proper sight picture is right at 1.3xVso.

My biggest complaint with fast track programs and Academies is the lack of being taught the solid basics of airmanship. I was lucky in the sense that most of my initial instruction was ATP's Chief pilot and he's a guy that wants you to learn how to fly like a bird. I also became friends with a DE who owns a Cub and we did a lot of flying in which he really taught me how to be an aviator, rather then a guage flyin monkey. :D
 
I should also note, that being a professional pilot (121) is all about flying the guages. Sure the airmanship skills you learn early are the basic foundation, but for example when flying the 1900 on approach, you're flying target airspeeds, not sight pictures. Of course this becomes easier as you progress in your ability, but we don't get style points in 121 for greaser landings and pretty approaches. You need Vapp +/- 10kts, Vref +/-5kts. (at least thats what I use). No exceptions. :)
 
kellwolf said:
Nope. I don't think it's a fair assessment. A guy can fly a traffic pattern without an ASI, but he might slam it into the ground or float for miles. But, since he flew the pattern he's a good pilot? I don't agree with that. It's more of a sight picture thing that's gonna go out the window if you fly another plane. For example, you can fly the TP without the ASI in a 172, but you're gonna be all over the place in an Arrow or a Warrior b/c the sight picture is different, the engines are different, the pitch trim is different, etc, etc.
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This was not the only thing in the list of "are you a good pilot". The article has a list of probably fifty different things. At the end, it says something about "if you can do 90% of these things, yes you're a good pilot." It's just an article trying to teach people to never stop learning.
 
High_Alpha said:
I loved to unfold a checklist over the entire 6-pack abeam the numbers. Trim, pitch and rpm are all you need.

And I agree that this applies to a certain airplane, to build confidence and teach that whole "pitch+power=performance" concept. If you get in an airplane you've never flown, you can't do this no matter how good you are.
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"If you get in an airplane youve never flown,you cant do this no matter how good you are"If you are talking about most all singles and light twins,I would have to disagree with you. Sorry. FLY SAFE T.C.
 
Really, t-cart? So an Evektor SportStar, a Pitts, a Skyhawk, a Malibu, a Husky and a Duchess have the same types of power settings and visual cues in the pattern?
 
I'd have a student fly around the pattern without any instruments before their first solo. They'd usually be within 100 feet of pattern altitude and within 10 mph of what they estimated we were doing.
 
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