Flying in formation

[Boris Badenov]

Yep. Theres no reason in the world for a landing or t.o. in formation.

Other than it's REALLY FUN, you mean? That said, I agree with the rest...talk about it before hand, arrange signals for things that might come up, and don't fly formation with anyone you don't trust. Tempest in a teapot.

 

[ctab5060X]

Other than it's REALLY FUN, you mean? That said, I agree with the rest...talk about it before hand, arrange signals for things that might come up, and don't fly formation with anyone you don't trust. Tempest in a teapot.

That is paramount to formation flying.

 

[LoadMasterC141]

I watched two 172s takeoff in formation from here the other day. The lead had flaps in on takeoff but the trail did not. They cameclose to whacking each other several times and it looked like they were barely able to keep them apart most of the time. Stupid if you ask me.

I had an Ex F4 pilot join on me in his Mooney once for a photo op. He was tight, but it was thoroughly discussed on the ground and all I had to do was fly straight in smooth air.

Also done a 5 ship formation flight. 100 foot separation and about 1/4 mile spacing. Again, briefed on the ground and led by several military pilots trained in the art.

 

[Hacker15e]

Theres no reason in the world for a landing or t.o. in formation.

Actually, there is. Which is why military fighter and trainers practice it.

 

[LoadMasterC141]

Not trying to be cheeky here, but what is the reason military guys do it? I guess I always figured they could just join up in the air, but I am sure there is a good reason.

 

[Boris Badenov]

I watched two 172s takeoff in formation from here the other day. The lead had flaps in on takeoff but the trail did not. They cameclose to whacking each other several times and it looked like they were barely able to keep them apart most of the time. Stupid if you ask me.

Well, they sound like idiots. I've a fair amount of time flying in "tight" (not military-tight, but not half a mile apart either) formation with no formal training. It all goes back to the "people you trust" thing. If you know a guy (or girl) has their head about them, you talk about it ahead of time, and you pay attention, you'll be fine. My God, you drive in close formation with people who think "Americas Funniest Home Videos" is the height of entertainment and probably should be permanently fitted with a bicycle helmet ALL THE TIME. Use some common sense. The plane does not automatically explode if you get within 1000ft of another plane.

 

[BobDDuck]

Not trying to be cheeky here, but what is the reason military guys do it? I guess I always figured they could just join up in the air, but I am sure there is a good reason.

If you are taking off into a low IMC ceiling and not going to be punching through the top, it's sort of hard to find the dude if he takes off before you. Radar steers (and even targeting) will only get you so close.

 

[Hacker15e]

Not trying to be cheeky here, but what is the reason military guys do it? I guess I always figured they could just join up in the air, but I am sure there is a good reason.

Takeoffs: For aircraft that need to go as a formation and don't have radars, that is the only way to get into the weather if the ceiling doesn't allow a join-up below the clouds (usually 1500/3).

Landings: If any aircraft has an instrumentation problem -- from loss of basic airspeed/altitude/attitude down to loss of navigation ability -- then landing with the emergency on the wing allows him to make a safe landing with the leader flying the numbers or doing the navigating. It is also the solution to the proverbial "electrical out above a solid weather deck" -- bring the electrical out guy down to the flare on the wing of a good aircraft. I have personally had to do a wing landing as an emergency twice -- once in the T-38 and once in the F-15.

 

[LoadMasterC141]

Thanks makes sense!

 

[BajtheJino]

Actually, there is. Which is why military fighter and trainers practice it.

Oh, I agree but no ones talking about the military here.

 

[MikeD]

Oh, I agree but no ones talking about the military here.

Yes, for civilian needs I can't think of any normal requirement to perform them, besides airshows. That's why I posted what I did in my original response.

There may be here and there requirements, civilian-wise. But again, 91.13 looms heavily over the head of anyone who undertakes any formation ops and has an accident/incident during. It'd be hard to justify the operational need of why it was being done, to the FAA; especially with no record of formal training.

 

[towhook]

Formation does make sense to perform, civilian or military. If two airplanes want to travel somewhere together, by the same route, and arrive at the same time then it makes sense. Usually the military does this to bomb things with groups of planes, or meet a tanker, etc but taking a trip with another aircraft and wanting to arrive together is a good enough reason too. I believe that as long as you do it safely then the reason is your business.

Two or more pilots work together all the time in large jet aircraft. Formation is not that much different. Everyone must be on the same page (briefed) and use the same standardized procedures. Only one person is in charge and everyone has their own specified duties. Clear and concise communication between pilots is necessary.

The key is getting some training and learning/using the same procedures of those you are flying with.

 

[MikeD]

Two or more pilots work together all the time in large jet aircraft. Formation is not that much different. Everyone must be on the same page (briefed) and use the same standardized procedures. Only one person is in charge and everyone has their own specified duties. Clear and concise communication between pilots is necessary.

Generally true, but a very simplified description.

The key is getting some training and learning/using the same procedures of those you are flying with.

More true. And its the type/depth of training you receive too. Form is far more than just holding a position during straight and level.