Flying a Glass Cockpit: Is it Safer?

At my airline, all new Capts get a six month check. I'm guessing I'll have about 50 hours in the seat when it comes down.
 
Giving landings if you have less than 100 hrs as capt in type would be doing something wrong!

We get a line check at the 6 mo point after the PC also.
 
Doug Taylor said:
I get landings, more than I want. And he's going to be getting a "six month check" because he failed a part of his upgrade training.

Heavy on opinion, light on experience, oh joy.

Can you tell that it's either time to upgrade or time to move on to another aircraft type? :)
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Sounds like he should have gone for "four bar" on the space shuttle steada the 90!

Good luck man. Sounds like your a training/check airman FO now. :)
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
Agreed. But a pilot flying a DC-8/9/10 or classic B727,737,747 will prolly enjoy FLYING the plane more then he might enjoy "system managing" a plane glass cockpit equip plane.
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I hand-fly most of the time we are not in cruise. I leave the flight director up pretty much all the time, because after all we do have 50 people in the back. Sometimes I will turn off the FD as well, but always on days when the weather is good and traffic is light. This way if the autopilot buys the farm someday, I will have something to fall back on. Not to mention, it is just dang fun to fly the airplane by hand!

When I was new to the airplane and the automation, I would fly with the autopilot much more. This is simply because I felt it was important to learn to use it properly, so that later I could fly the airplane by hand more and be able to use the automation as an assistant, while not losing focus on the task at hand.

I think many new hires have it backwards, where they will attempt to fly the aircraft by hand since they fear the automation. I feel if you get comfortable flying with the automation while the autopilot is engaged, you can later focus on hand-flying while the critical automation inputs become more second nature.
 
FlyChicaga said:
I think many new hires have it backwards, where they will attempt to fly the aircraft by hand since they fear the automation. I feel if you get comfortable flying with the automation while the autopilot is engaged, you can later focus on hand-flying while the critical automation inputs become more second nature.
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I have an opposite philosophy. I felt I got a lot out of hand flying as a new hire. Much more than leaving the AP on. Otherwise, I might as well still be in the sim. It gave me a lot more confidence on landings when I clicked the AP off. If I had just left it on until short final, I don't think I would have been as calm as I was on landing.
 
Hey Chicaga-

Not to hijack the thread but what do you think of the flaps 22 landings? I'm still a bit undecided not sure I like how the airplane flies at target not to mention the tendency for the PLI to appear. I also question the savings vs. the wear and tear on brakes. PM me if you prefer.
 
DE727UPS said:
I'm high mins but I trade legs. Am I doing something wrong? Like, I should take all the legs just to get off high mins faster? That's not very nice....
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It's required at my company that the high mins capts do all the flying until they are off high mins. It's cool that UPS still lets you alternate legs. Makes for very boring flights just being the radio Biatch

I do feel that glass is safer as long as it is coupled with a good crew. As said before, glass can lead to complacency which is dangerous. I have seen it a few times in the past where E170's A/P just flat out screws up, missed the Alt capture, and goes into ROLL FPA and keeps on trucking.
 
Doubt it's required for "all the flying", but it would certainly be a requirement for takeoffs and landings. It's a regulation. I would venture that he isn't letting them manipulate the controls during takeoff and landing.
 
kellwolf said:
I have an opposite philosophy. I felt I got a lot out of hand flying as a new hire. Much more than leaving the AP on. Otherwise, I might as well still be in the sim.
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a good example of why you should hand fly without the FD happened the other day. about 300' from level off generator 2 failed and kicked off. that killed the autopilot and fd and put reg flags up over all our screens. I was pf and it was a nonevent to just grab the yoke and level off, sans autopilot and FD.

these things happen every now and then. I make it a point to fly without the ap or fd on almost every takeoff unless it's a very specific noise abatement issue (such as the west runway in BOS) or it's low IFR with a low level off. Climbing at 3000+ FPM with a level off at 2000' and a ceiling of 300' I would definately use the FD and most likely the AP. But on a nice day and fun departure it's nice to just 'fly'.

I found when I was on OE that I was lagging behind the airplane when I turned the AP on at 600'. When I started hand flying, I kept up with the plane and could think ahead much easier. Not sure why.
 
Im not arguing one way or another on the safety issues. I think the safety issues are shadowed a bit as a result of the latest and greatest glass cockpits (ie Garmin 1000, etc), but in years past there have been airline accidents due to mode error in FMS systems and other glass panel components, just like there have been in analog gauges, maybe not as many. I personally prefer analog gauges as primary and moving maps as backup. To me it just seems easy to glance down and see that needle in the general vicinity of approach speed, than to look at a glass panel and see 87, 88, 91, 89...and so on

Whats funny to me is that the FAA is living in 1958, they wont IFR certify any glass moving map that has more than 7 colors. While boxes like the new Garmin GMX200 have tons of colors, and show greater detail, the FAA deems those too confusing for IFR certification. Just doesnt make sense to me since we have all this great technology and arent supposed to use it to full capacity
 
skydriverdc6 said:
but in years past there have been airline accidents due to mode error in FMS systems and other glass panel components, just like there have been in analog gauges, maybe not as many. I personally prefer analog gauges as primary and moving maps as backup. To me it just seems easy to glance down and see that needle in the general vicinity of approach speed, than to look at a glass panel and see 87, 88, 91, 89...and so on
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You are confusing two different systems. An FMS does not a glass cockpit make! There are airplanes out there with 'steam' gauges and FMS's. Not to mention the MTFB (mean time between failure) is sooooo much longer for glass instruments than regular old moving-parts steam guages. IOW, they are quite a bit more reliable.

Flying a 'glass' airplane is no different than flying a 'steam' airplane, in fact its a bit easier IMO with all the info provided in one display. There are things on the PFD's/MFD's that make it easier to fly and navigate better too - the trend vectors take all the guesswork out of flying for the most part and make it much more precise. All good things that enhance safety.

There was a 4000+ hour 1900 CA in my glass that couldn't 'grasp' the glass scan/automation and was asked to leave. I would have to say that spending a long time flying steam gauges and then switching to glass is hard for some people, but it doesn't mean that glass aircraft are harder to fly than steam gauges. There is a just a lot more information presented and its the pilots job to sort thru it all.
 
Doug Taylor said:
We've got "laser ring gyros" in the MD-88/90.

You have to have gyros or accelerometers in order to produce attitude information - if there's something else, please educate me.

AHRS systems aren't all that hot because they're subject to "map shift" and that's not all that fun when you're in the soup on arrival.
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My ancient DC8 useses a FOG "gyro" or Fiber Optic Gyro. No moving parts, and I would be very hard pressed to tell you exactly how it works, but the box it is in is about the size of 3 shoe boxes. Sends a signal to the old style steam gauges.

The Dash8 used a type of torque gyro system. Had three parts that were installed in the floor near the wings. They measure the amount of "moment" put on them and translated that into a AHRS. All I can say is, works great, last long time...
 
kellwolf said:
Remove the FD and don't turn on the AP. I do that at LEAST once or twice a week. Hell, visual approaches in the CRJ, the FD will hurt more than help 90% of the time. Belive it or not, you can turn a glass cockpit plane into something more than a system to manage. :)
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I fly almost exclusively without the flight director, and use the autopilot for cruise. Mainly for the reason that this paticular autopilot is a pain in the butt to use from the right seat. The turn knob and vertical velocity wheel are set up for the captain to use. So lots o' stick time for me, but hey thats what I am paid for!
 
Cav said:
Hey Chicaga-

Not to hijack the thread but what do you think of the flaps 22 landings? I'm still a bit undecided not sure I like how the airplane flies at target not to mention the tendency for the PLI to appear. I also question the savings vs. the wear and tear on brakes. PM me if you prefer.
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I love them. The airplane flies differently, but still very nice at Flaps 22. At this point, I prefer doing Flaps 22 landings. There are still times when I'll use Flaps 45, but whenever possible I'll go with Flaps 22.

The brake wear issue seems like a non-issue to me. I haven't noticed any difference. Problem is, people aren't using common sense with the flap setting. If you are landing Runway 11 in EWR, why use Flaps 22? People are using 22 and trying to make Romeo, then complain about brake temperature. Or, they carry even more speed because of discomfort about the pitch angle and "mushy" way the airplane feels, so they will land at the end or outside the touchdown zone which requires greater braking. If people would brief the planned turnoff, and utilize a flap setting accordingly, then there would be less issues.
 
Doug Taylor said:
Me: "Don't hit execute...wait wait wait. Augh! Dang... don't worry I'll....wait... you've got a crossing restriction, go ahead and... no, don't VNAV that, wait... auuuugh!"
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Hope he doesnt read your website! That could make the rest of the month fun.
 
I turn the AP on a heck of alot..Thats what all that high dollar stuff is there for, to reduce workload and increase safety. IMO it does little good to sit up there and wear yourself out doing straight and level bs once youve gotten some time in the plane.. I get no sense of satisfaction by doing a steady climb/dec on a heading for extended periods of time while im handflying. IMO it is much easier for an altitude deviation or other deviations when one is handflying and requires much more attention from both pilots.

At one particular company i am fimilar with the Non flyer has more work to do when the AP is off and the FP just flies, so thanks to the guy who flies allthe way up to the 30s while the NFP has to keep dialing in every single alt change. Turning off the FD should be a rare occasion on nice weather days when you are unable to get the FD to mirror what you are going to do. But turning it off to fly an ILS to mins is stupid. Thats about as smart as pulling the EGPWS CB and a few others while your at it.

When you fly an Airplane with AP Defered, then handfly and get all the handflying you want for the entire year out of your system.

Turn the AP on and slide the seat back!
 
I didn't know the 1900D's at GIA had autopilots?








(Sorry, I had to go and make an attempt to ruin your one serious post of the year)
 
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