flows and checklists

[caliginousface]

do any of you non riddle or und cfi's require your students to memorize the flow/checklist and then back it up with the checklist? when i was a riddle rat i found knowing the emergency flow and then backing it up was way sweeter in teh sense of getting everything configured in a timely manner, and then backing it up to make sure you didnt miss anything.

i want to do that back here in san jose, but i dont know how dry time will work out seeing the number of a/c are limited.

 

[jrh]

do any of you non riddle or und cfi's require your students to memorize the flow/checklist and then back it up with the checklist?

I teach at a small college program, I'm proud to say nothing like ERAU/UND, and we use flows with checklists. I don't think it's an "airline" thing as much as it is a "fast, efficient, safe piloting" kind of thing. I like them for the reasons you already mentioned.

i want to do that back here in san jose, but i dont know how dry time will work out seeing the number of a/c are limited.

Huh? What's dry time? How does a limited number of aircraft affect the way you fly?

 

[caliginousface]

I teach at a small college program, I'm proud to say nothing like ERAU/UND, and we use flows with checklists. I don't think it's an "airline" thing as much as it is a "fast, efficient, safe piloting" kind of thing. I like them for the reasons you already mentioned.



Huh? What's dry time? How does a limited number of aircraft affect the way you fly?

dry time is sitting in the plane onthe ground getting the flows down. the limited number doesnt affect flight, but the amount of dry time i can get.

 

[jrh]

dry time is sitting in the plane onthe ground getting the flows down. the limited number doesnt affect flight, but the amount of dry time i can get.

Oh, ok, I get it. How well does the FBO in San Jose know you? Is there any way to access the aircraft after hours?

Where I work, the front desk workers and all the flight instructors have keys to the building and hangar. It's not uncommon for somebody with access to go flying after hours or get into the building and use the sim. If somebody asked me to let them in to practice flows, I wouldn't mind. I'd just go shoot some approaches on the sim while they sat in the hangar.

Maybe if you talk to the management or instructors at the FBO you could work something out.

 

[PhotoPilot]

Order some posters of your cockpit from Sporty's or take a digital photo and have it printed poster-size as WalMart. Your student can do touch drills and practice flows while drinking beer in his living room! No plane needed.

 

[caliginousface]

Order some posters of your cockpit from Sporty's or take a digital photo and have it printed poster-size as WalMart. Your student can do touch drills and practice flows while drinking beer in his living room! No plane needed.

haha, if i was a cfi i'd tell my student to, but it'll be me drinking beer and checking the circuit breakers for a while longer. but good suggestions, i just might have to do that.

 

[PhotoPilot]

My bad! I just assumed that you were the CFI . . . and you know what happens when we assume. People die!

Seriously, if you really want to make a good proceedures training poster, take photos of the entire panel and any controls/switches/etc. that are located elsewhere in the cockpit. Have them blown up life-size at Walmart/Costco and stick them on the wall at home. Works great.

I can't tell you how many hours I spend in front of a poster getting ready for my first day at this job!

 

[Foxcow]

I taught at UND and now I teach at St. Louis University's Parks College of Aviation and at both places, flows are a part of the program. I think its when it comes to good flight programs, its a universal thing.

 

[hattrick]

i think that flow checks are very important. one thing i always tell my students is to use a flow check and then back it up with a checklist. much more efficient. the word checklist implies that you do not use it as a to do list. meaning dont read fuel selector on ok fuel selector checked on. then back to the list. mixture in ok mixture checked in. just use a flow check and then back it up. as far as practicing flow checks, sitting in an aircraft is nice but not necessary. like said get a poster, use a sim, or simply sit in a living room chair and imagine the cockpit controls. i know that last one sounds stupid but if you know where stuff is in your airplane then it works just fine

 

[Rocketman99]

the word checklist implies that you do not use it as a to do list. meaning dont read fuel selector on ok fuel selector checked on. then back to the list. mixture in ok mixture checked in. just use a flow check and then back it up.

Ahh, but if you learned to fly in the AF and flew heavies you were taught the checklists are challenge and response items, often coinciding with performing the action. Some parts were incorporated into a flow you then backed up later. If you went the fighter/bomber route, the checklists were to be memorized and perofrmed and back up by looking at them.

In sim training at Colgan was the first time I ever heard someone say the "checklist is not a do list". Yet another of the paradigm shifts in going from military to civilian aviation... Personally, I don't see anything wrong with making/using flows and have usually done things that way. However, I'm not big on the idea that that is the only way to do it. It's that whole principle of things being cool or fun until you're forced to do them...

My .02