FLOSI 3 Arrival chart question

[Stone Cold]

I didn't read it as approval for 250+ below 10,000. I presume if you're on the arrival and can only do 235 (Beech 1900), they're not going to have many options on sequencing traffic using speed.

I agree with you. It's not approval for 250+ below 10k. The way the op wrote it says people are saying it is approval, and I don't agree.

 

[bimmerphile]

I don't find it confusing, but I guess you could change the language a bit to make it idiot proof.
"Authorized for turbojet and turboprop aircraft capable of 250kt or greater"

the NACO Williamsport 3 has it worded differently
"NOTE: This STAR is for aircraft capable of 250kt or greater."

 

[Prino]

Why not just have speeds on the arrivals themselves? Then have the loa with the center say that only turboprop aircraft capable of of 250+ kts (which we know what aircraft this includes) can be on said arrival?

 

[ASpilot2be]

"Turbojet and turboprop aircraft capable of 250 knots or greater are authorized to conduct this STAR. Keep your speed up above 10K and 250 is expected below. Dash 8's and King Airs, you should be on the RUUTH" is how I read it.

Q400 can do jet arrivals with ease with its jet like speeds!

 

[milleR]

Q400 can do jet arrivals with ease with its jet like speeds!

Wipers up

 

[GoDawgsGo]

I don’t know how one could remotely interpret you can bust 250 below 10 from that chart.

Because people lack basic grammar skills nowadays. There is no comma or period after the word aircraft. That's kind of important to 'interpreting' this.

 

[CFI A&P]

The way I see if, you can be assigned a speed faster than 250 when above 10k. Say you’re number 1 to the field, you’ll get best forward speed until 10k, then slow to 250 before going below 10k. Same as when departing HPN or other NYC metro and you are told climb and maintain 16,000 with speed 250. In that case spacing outbound is controlled by speed management.

 

[JordanD]

The way I see if, you can be assigned a speed faster than 250 when above 10k. Say you’re number 1 to the field, you’ll get best forward speed until 10k, then slow to 250 before going below 10k. Same as when departing HPN or other NYC metro and you are told climb and maintain 16,000 with speed 250. In that case spacing outbound is controlled by speed management.

This is a fun one when departing SJC. "Sorry, we're under the bravo. You're getting 200 until we're out from underneath it."

 

[CFI A&P]

The way I see if, you can be assigned a speed faster than 250 when above 10k. Say you’re number 1 to the field, you’ll get best forward speed until 10k, then slow to 250 before going below 10k. Same as when departing HPN or other NYC metro and you are told climb and maintain 16,000 with speed 250. In that case spacing outbound is controlled by speed management.

This is a fun one when departing SJC. "Sorry, we're under the bravo. You're getting 200 until we're out from underneath it."

Oh yeah, been there done that. Also the loop departure, I understand the SFO bravo to the north but seems silly to go 30 miles southeast before getting a turn in the direction of your destination.

 

[JordanD]

The way I see if, you can be assigned a speed faster than 250 when above 10k. Say you’re number 1 to the field, you’ll get best forward speed until 10k, then slow to 250 before going below 10k. Same as when departing HPN or other NYC metro and you are told climb and maintain 16,000 with speed 250. In that case spacing outbound is controlled by speed management.

This is a fun one when departing SJC. "Sorry, we're under the bravo. You're getting 200 until we're out from underneath it."

Oh yeah, been there done that. Also the loop departure, I understand the SFO bravo to the north but seems silly to go 30 miles southeast before getting a turn in the direction of your destination.

TECKY at 5,000 is mighty fun to hand fly though

 

[ASpilot2be]

This is a fun one when departing SJC. "Sorry, we're under the bravo. You're getting 200 until we're out from underneath it."

The loop is fun! Just did that the other day.

 

[Cptnchia]

This is a fun one when departing SJC. "Sorry, we're under the bravo. You're getting 200 until we're out from underneath it."

Heavy MD-90 = clean speed 260kts. Never been told “no” by ATC.

 

[JordanD]

This is a fun one when departing SJC. "Sorry, we're under the bravo. You're getting 200 until we're out from underneath it."

Heavy MD-90 = clean speed 260kts. Never been told “no” by ATC.

Yeah, it's kind of a dumb rule because it even reads 200 or minimum safe speed, which like you pointed out can be a lot quicker depending on the plane. We have no problem doing 200 clean though, dunno about the guy behind us, so it seems like more of an ATC issue. I have heard them call people out on going too fast below the bravo there.

 

[Hammertime]

The only turboprops allowed on that Arrival are Q400's. Otherwise only jets. Although they don't come here anymore, the Commutair Dash 8 Abc's came on a different route mixed in with the TEB arrivals.

Yep. V489.COATE.

I think the wording is perfectly clear. "Go away Dash Trash. We don't want you on our shiny jet arrivals..."

 

[NovemberEcho]

Yep. V489.COATE.

I think the wording is perfectly clear. "Go away Dash Trash. We don't want you on our shiny jet arrivals..."

And they listened! Only Dash's coming in now are the Q400's

 

[inigo88]

This is a fun one when departing SJC. "Sorry, we're under the bravo. You're getting 200 until we're out from underneath it."

Oh yeah, been there done that. Also the loop departure, I understand the SFO bravo to the north but seems silly to go 30 miles southeast before getting a turn in the direction of your destination.

I hate to hijack this EWR thread with Bay Area stuff, and this diagram is at least 20 years old, but still close to what they do now with all the RNAV STARS and SIDs. It's pretty badass (I'm told you can totally say that here).

I'd love to see the one for N90 with the JFK/LGA/EWR/TEB arrivals and departures snaking over and under each other. Hint hint @NovemberEcho.

 

[ASpilot2be]

I hate to hijack this EWR thread with Bay Area stuff, and this diagram is at least 20 years old, but still close to what they do now with all the RNAV STARS and SIDs. It's pretty badass (I'm told you can totally say that here).

View attachment 43105

I'd love to see the one for N90 with the JFK/LGA/EWR/TEB arrivals and departures snaking over and under each other. Hint hint @NovemberEcho.

Ahhh! The Loupe departure!

 

[nabbyfan]

Im sure they made one for NYC too, but heres one for the Socal Airspace, before the new RNAV stuff. Even though were still basically doing the same thing with the Descend Via, Except Maintain.... So Glad we spent all this money on new RNAV arrivals only for the TRACON to refuse to let us Descend Via anyways!

 

[NovemberEcho]

I hate to hijack this EWR thread with Bay Area stuff, and this diagram is at least 20 years old, but still close to what they do now with all the RNAV STARS and SIDs. It's pretty badass (I'm told you can totally say that here).

View attachment 43105

I'd love to see the one for N90 with the JFK/LGA/EWR/TEB arrivals and departures snaking over and under each other. Hint hint @NovemberEcho.

Couldn't find a map like that but there's this

 

[Hammertime]

That's strangely mesmerizing.

Also, did the Flosi today. Was never confused on my speed. 250 below 10.