Flight Training Syllabus

[Zero1Niner]

Anyone using a published syllabus that you could recommend?

 

[minitour]

Anyone using a published syllabus that you could recommend?

Ugh...no way. Write your own. It's the best way.

If you must use a commercially prepared syllabus, Jepp is okay.

-mini

 

[moxiepilot]

I'm with mini. If you're working in a 61 environment there is no syllabus which is going to work for your student's needs. It might give you a general progression outline, but it doesn't pay attention to what the student needs.

My general outline is:

pre solo stuff (those pesky 15 things)
pattern
solo
x-c stuff
solo x-c
checkride prep

you don't need a Jepp thingy for that.

 

[minitour]

I think I broke mine down into 3 "stages".

Pre-Solo
Cross Country (including solo-xc)
Checkride Prep

Worked out pretty well. That's the beauty. When you write your own, you can break it down how you like, how your students need, etc.

-mini

 

[escapepilot]

Ugh on a syllabus. Someone on here has/had a spreadsheet program that helps keep track of the requirements...that helps.

 

[jhugz]

I use the Jepp for everything because our school is 141 and handles all the 61 stuff the same way. It's fine I guess. Would rather be doing my own thing then doing this stupid stage checks for 61 but I guess I'm just happy to be employed.

 

[mshunter]

I use Jepp, Gliem, CPC, Sporty's, or whatever. The thing I try to remember, and tell my student is that it's a guide, not a must happen. I follow them all very loosely. When you have all the stuff in that particluar syllabus done, then we can move on, but not untill then.


I've tried to make my own, and it was a pain in the but to get everything I needed to cover remembered. So I use commercially produced ones to help me and my student as a guide. It also goes home with the student so they can see their progress.

 

[shdw]

I use Jepp, Gliem, CPC, Sporty's, or whatever. The thing I try to remember, and tell my student is that it's a guide, not a must happen.

First, not harping on you at all, because what your saying is true but still nuts. I find it hilarious that any other educational area: schools, organizational training programs, military, and even recreational things such as sports instruction have syllabi. The only difference is for them it isn't referred to as a guide to "follow loosely."

In fact the areas such as schools, military and organizational training programs are strict guides with stringent guidelines. Probably none more strict than that of the military. The reason for this is because the guide used was designed for the application it was intended for. Unfortunately in today's aviation training, aside from select 141 schools this does not exist. I say select because I am not referring the small ones but the ones that are part of an educational facility that wrote their own course and didn't pick up crap like Jeppesen.

The worst is part 61 applications that think outlines for 141 can be applied to their students. It just simply cannot work because you don't follow that, and I am sure you will agree Ms, you didn't have anything partially perfected probably till you put a few students through.

I know here I am again boasting for change, but people I ploy you to see this as a major flaw in the current system. We are an educational facility that operates with the organization of a kindergarden soccer team. Things need to change. I hope to someday put a change to this, in the mean time I will just say this, do not fall into the nitch that has been followed for years and is not showing improvement in pilot error, let's change it. Start by really analyzing your training through designing and working with your own syllabus, I am sure many here would be willing to help you, myself for one. Good luck.

 

[mshunter]

First, not harping on you at all, because what your saying is true but still nuts. I find it hilarious that any other educational area: schools, organizational training programs, military, and even recreational things such as sports instruction have syllabi. The only difference is for them it isn't referred to as a guide to "follow loosely."

In fact the areas such as schools, military and organizational training programs are strict guides with stringent guidelines. Probably none more strict than that of the military. The reason for this is because the guide used was designed for the application it was intended for. Unfortunately in today's aviation training, aside from select 141 schools this does not exist. I say select because I am not referring the small ones but the ones that are part of an educational facility that wrote their own course and didn't pick up crap like Jeppesen.

The worst is part 61 applications that think outlines for 141 can be applied to their students. It just simply cannot work because you don't follow that, and I am sure you will agree Ms, you didn't have anything partially perfected probably till you put a few students through.

I know here I am again boasting for change, but people I ploy you to see this as a major flaw in the current system. We are an educational facility that operates with the organization of a kindergarden soccer team. Things need to change. I hope to someday put a change to this, in the mean time I will just say this, do not fall into the nitch that has been followed for years and is not showing improvement in pilot error, let's change it. Start by really analyzing your training through designing and working with your own syllabus, I am sure many here would be willing to help you, myself for one. Good luck.

I fully get what your saying, and agree to an extent. Some students get the basics real quick, say less than 5 hours, but are horrible at, say steep turns or something. Thats why I only use a syllabus as a guide. I don't want to short change someone of the fundamentals just becuase the syllabus says it's time to move on.

As for the complete overhaul of the training done in the US. I don't think it's needed. But I do definatly think that there are some serious changes that need to be made. One example: I think if the FAA wants to tell us what needs to be done to earn a certian certificate, they need to not write the regs in a way that can be interpereted so loosely, and differently by so many people, including their own FSDO's.

P.S. I'd say lets race to 1000 posts, but I know you'll win :=)

 

[BrewMaster]

First, not harping on you at all, because what your saying is true but still nuts. I find it hilarious that any other educational area: schools, organizational training programs, military, and even recreational things such as sports instruction have syllabi. The only difference is for them it isn't referred to as a guide to "follow loosely."

In fact the areas such as schools, military and organizational training programs are strict guides with stringent guidelines. Probably none more strict than that of the military. The reason for this is because the guide used was designed for the application it was intended for. Unfortunately in today's aviation training, aside from select 141 schools this does not exist. I say select because I am not referring the small ones but the ones that are part of an educational facility that wrote their own course and didn't pick up crap like Jeppesen.

The worst is part 61 applications that think outlines for 141 can be applied to their students. It just simply cannot work because you don't follow that, and I am sure you will agree Ms, you didn't have anything partially perfected probably till you put a few students through.

I know here I am again boasting for change, but people I ploy you to see this as a major flaw in the current system. We are an educational facility that operates with the organization of a kindergarden soccer team. Things need to change. I hope to someday put a change to this, in the mean time I will just say this, do not fall into the nitch that has been followed for years and is not showing improvement in pilot error, let's change it. Start by really analyzing your training through designing and working with your own syllabus, I am sure many here would be willing to help you, myself for one. Good luck.

I think you have a good idea here, but like you said yourself, you are changing something that has been around a very long time. Also, teaching someone to fly an airplane isn't like teaching something about Greek mythology. Schools, military, and organizational training programs are paid for with tax dollars. If we treated them like private pilot training then we would have a nation of even more pissed off tax payers.

Nobody is making anybody take flying lessons. The rules, guidelines, etc. must be followed by all pilots, but the best part about America is that you have a choice about who you learn with, where you learn, and how you learn.

I agree that there needs to be a little more continuity in the learning process, but that's just what it is....a learning process. I've had students who have had no problems learning and other students who I wanted to push out of the airplane. In flying there needs to be plenty of room to mold, shape, and configure your syllabus to fit the needs of a particular student. While I think it makes sense to have a little stricter guideline, I don't think it's very realistic considering how unnatural everything you are teaching is. The FAR's say what MUST be taught and when in the process. What you are saying is that every student must solo by 12 hours or they flunk. In school if you don't learn something by test time you either fail or go to special ed. In flying if you don't get it, you get another loan and keep trucking.

I think it is a very loose comparison to say that a lack of a common syllabi is the cause of pilot error. Pilot error is the cause of pilot error. There are enough checks and balances to make sure we manufacture a good pilot. Most all of the accidents you read about are unfortunately very preventable, and good syllabus or not, they were going to happen.

I do think it would make it a lot easier to start teaching if we had a common syllabus, but there are just too many factors. I use my syllabus as a guide and make sure I only sign my name if I'm confident they will do good. I don't really think syllabi are the issue in regards to pilot error, I think it's more a who and how situation.

 

[shdw]

I can't add to what I have or I would give out all my ideas However, I don't mean a rewrite of all of it, just more accurately targeted structure so to speak. I will get back to this in coming months hopefully sooner than later. Web design quotes in progress wahoo!

Edit:

I do think it would make it a lot easier to start teaching if we had a common syllabus, but there are just too many factors.

Almost every single breakthrough in human evolution, especially technological, has been met with this mind set by somebody before the inventions birth. There is too much to calculate for, well I respectfully disagree, I think it can be done it just will take time.

 

[splash]

I think if the FAA wants to tell us what needs to be done to earn a certian certificate, they need to not write the regs in a way that can be interpereted so loosely, and differently by so many people, including their own FSDO's.

:yeahthat:

x2...say what you mean! Yeah, does anyone no what's going on around here? :dunno:

 

[BrewMaster]

Almost every single breakthrough in human evolution, especially technological, has been met with this mind set by somebody before the inventions birth. There is too much to calculate for, well I respectfully disagree, I think it can be done it just will take time.

I'm not disagreeing that it can't be done, I'm just saying you are flirting with trying to reinvent the wheel. I'd say it would be much easier to properly teach everyone how a wheel works. No matter what, people are going to have issues, this isn't a technoligical advancement or anything like that. I find it hard to believe that we can account for EVERYONE and their learning abilities. I believe in keeping it open to adjustment and making sure WE are teaching things properly. Like a said before, the syllabus isn't the issue, it's how the stuff is taught.

 

[minitour]

One standard syllable is not a good idea. Too many variables. I could just not see myself teaching Indian students that barely understand hygiene let alone the English language with a syllabus that was prepared for the average English speaking American.

Write your own...or buy mine.

-mini

 

[BrewMaster]

One standard syllable is not a good idea. Too many variables. I could just not see myself teaching Indian students that barely understand hygiene let alone the English language with a syllabus that was prepared for the average English speaking American.

Write your own...or buy mine.

-mini

Maybe you're the one that smells....

 

[Zero1Niner]

Finding a good place to start is a big part of the problem. Anyone willing to send me theirs to give me good starting point?

 

[mshunter]

Start with the fundamentals. preflight, eng. start, taxi, takeoff, level off, climbs, turns, descents, normal approach to landing, etc. You have to crawl before you can walk before you can run.

 

[BrewMaster]

Finding a good place to start is a big part of the problem. Anyone willing to send me theirs to give me good starting point?

Don't mean to sound like a prick but God gave you perfectly healthy brain to figure this out by yourself. Honestly, I know that sounds cliche but what good is it for someone to show you that. Think about what you do in a lesson, what order do you do things, etc. If you want, order the Jepp syllabus and build off of that. What are you gonna do when you are flying and your student asks you question you can't answer because you're teaching something that is in somebody else's syllabus.

Now that I'm officially a prick I want to say I know where you are coming from, it is hard to know where to start, but I guarantee you are more resourceful than you think.

If you are truly in dire straits, google it, order it, whatever.

Start building from lesson 1. Weight/Balance, Documents, Maintenance
Lesson 2. Checklists, Startup, Taxiing, Takeoff, Very basic flight maneuvers
Lesson 3...........

 

[Zero1Niner]

Don't mean to sound like a prick but God gave you perfectly healthy brain to figure this out by yourself. Honestly, I know that sounds cliche but what good is it for someone to show you that. Think about what you do in a lesson, what order do you do things, etc. If you want, order the Jepp syllabus and build off of that. What are you gonna do when you are flying and your student asks you question you can't answer because you're teaching something that is in somebody else's syllabus.

Now that I'm officially a prick I want to say I know where you are coming from, it is hard to know where to start, but I guarantee you are more resourceful than you think.

You know what? You are exactly right...you are a prick.

In all seriousness, I appreciate the advice. Its not a matter of 'cant' do it. Of course I can figure it out. But its more of a matter of efficiency and time. There are many other CFI's out there that have FAR more experience than I, that have already spent hours working these things out. Why reinvent the wheel, especially when there are guys, lets call them mentors perhaps, with years of experience that could help guide me and shortcut some mistakes that may not be necessary for me to make myself, and provide benefit to not only me, but to my first handful of students as well?

I'm not asking because I am lazy or disinterested in making my own, but because I would like to pull from those more experienced so that I can provide a better experience and opportunity for my students. And I fully intend on passing the torch as it were for the next generation of CFIs behind me.

Unreasonable?

Oh, and come on about the crap about 'What are you gonna do when you are flying and your student asks you question you can't answer because you're teaching something that is in somebody else's syllabus'. Its not like I am just going to print out the syllabus, grab it off the printer as I am running out the door to go teach someone without becoming extremely familiar with the material on the syllabus. And besides, how would that scenario be any different than teaching from a Jeppesen syllabus for that matter?

141 schools are run this way everywhere. You dont write your own, you follow the schools syllabus, right?

Anyway, I really do appreciate the advice.

 

[BrewMaster]

Depending on how long you have been a CFI, Sporty's usually gets the names of all the new CFI's around the country and send you a free copy of their syllabus...