Flight Instructors please stop flying for free.

Cessna414JJB said:
Doesn't that require CFI's and staff members with at least a basic understanding of customer service and sales?
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Absolutely. When a new student walks into your business, your staff should make that student feel welcome and not out of place. Put yourself in the student's (AKA: The Customer) place and think how you would want to be treated.

Treat someone that is going to spend thousands of dollars with your business well and you will have a much better chance of getting them to stay and actually spend that money.

Treat them like they are a bother to you and they will not stick around.

Folks this is a business. Treat your customers like customers.

Joe
 
JOEFRIDAY2 said:
Absolutely. When a new student walks into your business, your staff should make that student feel welcome and not out of place. Put yourself in the student's (AKA: The Customer) place and think how you would want to be treated.

Treat someone that is going to spend thousands of dollars with your business well and you will have a much better chance of getting them to stay and actually spend that money.

Treat them like they are a bother to you and they will not stick around.

Folks this is a business. Treat your customers like customers.

Joe
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Ha, so the 24 year old I-pod listening schmuck who lounges around the lounge staring everything with boobs into submission, while having his sneakers on the glass-table ain't working? And the guru behind the desk, who smells like he/ she had a barrel of nicotine juice dumped on him, foul language and all, isn't making the "customer" feel welcome? You're saying, "What do you think?" is not an appropriate way to see if a customer can be closed for further training? You mean the condition of the bird actually does matter to the customer?

Oh madre mio! Who would have thunk!?
 
JOEFRIDAY2 said:
Absolutely. When a new student walks into your business, your staff should make that student feel welcome and not out of place. Put yourself in the student's (AKA: The Customer) place and think how you would want to be treated.

Treat someone that is going to spend thousands of dollars with your business well and you will have a much better chance of getting them to stay and actually spend that money.



Treat them like they are a bother to you and they will not stick around.

Folks this is a business. Treat your customers like customers.

Joe
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Agree with this 100%. Back when I was flying, I lost track of how many times I would walk into an FBO excited at the prospect of doing some flying, only to be greeted with what I would politely describe as indifference (if I was greeted at all). I've thought about ht
 
JOEFRIDAY2 said:
Absolutely. When a new student walks into your business, your staff should make that student feel welcome and not out of place. Put yourself in the student's (AKA: The Customer) place and think how you would want to be treated.

Treat someone that is going to spend thousands of dollars with your business well and you will have a much better chance of getting them to stay and actually spend that money.

Treat them like they are a bother to you and they will not stick around.

Folks this is a business. Treat your customers like customers.

Joe
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Agree with this 100%. Back in my flying days, I would walk into an FBO excited at the prospect of doing some flying, only to be greeted with indifference (if I was greeted at all). I lost track of the times I had scheduled a flight, and showed up only to find that the instructor was not there, or that the planes were down, or some other reason we couldn't fly. Not so much as a phone call, or a "We're sorry about this." Didn't seem to dawn on them that I had to take a bus out there, and a trip to the airport was a minimum two hour affair. Great, my afternoon wasted because they couldn't be bothered to pick up a phone.

You can chose to look at it as "flying for free" I suppose. That's perfectly valid; but also rather short-sighted. If the goal is to make a nice living flying airplanes, then that goal is better served by acting to grow the business, rather than fussing about that occasional half an hour where you are "flying for free."
 
This is marketing- pure and simple- for the business. That said, if the owner of said flight school wants to "give away" intro flights on the promise of new students, he needs to eat that cost. Asking (or requiring) the CFI to work for free (or practically free) isn't part of the deal. It's the business owner's marketing cost, and that includes giving away the aircraft for next to nothing, as well as paying his employees.

In a flight school environment, anytime you deal with the public, I'd say it'd be wise to have CFI's with some degree of business savvy. It doesn't matter if they know how to run the flight school or not, but they need to know how to sell themselves and keep their students happy, which in turn keeps the flight school happy.

By the way, if people don't know how Groupon works, here's a simple breakdown:

The discounted service must be at least 50% off the retail rate. So, for a $100 intro flight, it needs to be priced at $50 or less. When the customer buys the Groupon, Groupon collects the revenue ($50, in this case). Then, Groupon takes half of that, and pays the other half to the business ($25, in this case). So, for the business owner, he is giving a 75% discount to his new, potential customers.

We used to do a decent bit of work with Groupon on behalf of some clients, and I have to say, that in some instances, it can be a very good marketing tool. The key is, it needs to be a service with a high enough gross profit where you can afford to eat the 75% loss on the revenue side. Also, it works considerably better for the business if it's an industry that's likely to up-sell the customer. For restaurants, this works pretty well- give away a $20 Groupon, knowing that when they come in to use it, they're still going to have a $60 check. Sure, you discounted the original $20 by 75%, but you're making your full gross profit off the remaining $40, and it was likely a sale that you wouldn't have had in the first place, and if you provided a quality service, the customer is likely to return (and we all know that's they key to building a business).

However, in the case of a flight school, I think the rate of conversation of a Groupon "tire kicker" turning into a new student is definitely below 20%. Given that, all the schools that I've seen try this have found it to be a losing battle for a flight school owner.
 
Patrick said:
This is marketing- pure and simple- for the business. That said, if the owner of said flight school wants to "give away" intro flights on the promise of new students, he needs to eat that cost. Asking (or requiring) the CFI to work for free (or practically free) isn't part of the deal.
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It's also unlawful.

And I would refuse.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
It's also unlawful.

And I would refuse.
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Very true. So is requiring CFI's to be at the FBO all day, but only paying them per flight hour (which often results in less than min wage per duty hour). Yet, how many FBO's still practice this, and how many CFI's (many of whom I'd venture have no idea about the legality of things, nor the ethical compromise) still accept it?
 
Patrick said:
Very true. So is requiring CFI's to be at the FBO all day, but only paying them per flight hour (which often results in less than min wage per duty hour). Yet, how many FBO's still practice this, and how many CFI's (many of whom I'd venture have no idea about the legality of things, nor the ethical compromise) still accept it?
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We have met the enemy; it is us! ;)
 
How many flight schools can there possibly be left in the Lou? (I know Cardinal went belly up years ago...what's that leave, Central and whatever KFS is calling itself this week?) Don't you guys all know each other? I think this needs to be settled in the parking lot. Purses at two paces!
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
I hear ya, I do. But if part of being in a free market is that someone can give their goods away at reduced rates if they want. Of course, you can move to a communist country if you want, where the worker doesn't own the product of his labor...

We can't control, and shouldn't try to control, the market in that way.
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I don't get what you are talking about.
The simple fact is that if Southwest offers a $49 dollar fare to Chicago, they don't notify their employees that they will be working for free that day.
Because that isn't right.
Same thing.
Bringing in the "Free-market" and "Communism" really just convolutes the-suck for no real purpose.
 
IIRC from college economics selling anything for less than what its worth is a bad business practice and illegal. But the problem is that since group-on is a third party is a little convoluted.

Either way its good to see that some other people have had better experiences with GROUP ON than we have down here.
 
I'd do a discovery flight for free.. That's not really giving your time away, I don't think.
 
Murdoughnut said:
People aren't exactly lining up to become pilots anymore. There aren't many people dumb enough to spend $150 an hour on something that doesn't lead to a happy ending. If you have to fly 100 discovery flights to hook someone, maybe that's just what you have to do. Flying is like crack - the only ones you'll hook are the ones who can't live without it (most of us), and someone has to get them started.
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Exactly... its kind of a free sample if you will. While most people do enjoy doing the disco flight but never come back, it IS an opportunity to get more students. You have better chance of getting someone interested in flying this way than charging them full price just to "try" it.
 
The problem with just "trying it" is that we have 2 types of people who take discovery flights: those that want to say they flew a plane and those that want to have a cool experience. The folks who turn into students come in for lessons from our real marketing efforts. If you take a look at the groupon thing, these discovery flights sell like hotcakes. If you spend all your time doing these flights you will NEVER GET PAID AND NEVER MAKE A LIVING. I'm just asking people to get paid to do your job and quit bitching about not making any money as a CFI. Do it right and you'll make plenty.

As an aside, it's funny how several people I have met in the past think I'm poor because I introduce myself as a CFI when they ask me what I do. I made 40k this year as a CFI only. I don't give my profession away. I'm not poor.
 
Well let's look at some numbers here from what you all have posted. The folks that have used Groupon with success are reporting a 10-20% sign up rate.

If Groupon brings in 10 discovery flights and 2 students sign up for flight lessons, here is how that could look:

1. 10 discovery flights cost the school $1500.00 in fuel, instructor and aircraft. ($150 per discovery flight)

2. Groupon paid the school $250 for the 10 flights ($25 per flight)

3. Net expense to the school for the 10 discovery flights is $1250 Groupon cost ($1500-$250)

4. School sells (actually upsells) two private pilot training programs which will generate at least $7000 each for a total of $14,000. (The program could generate $10,000 per student depending on the school)

5. Gross revenue to school after discovery flight expenses is a minimum of $11,500. Not big money, but it will keep the school in business.

If the school is good and they sell just one more flight program, this program is a home run. If the school sucks and they sell less than 2 programs then they wasted their time with Groupon.

I think the trick here is to put enough restrictions on the Groupon to cut down on the tire kickers. Also what is the redemption rate on these Groupons? Is the flight school paid for those coupons that are sold but not redeemed?


Joe
 
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