Flight Instructors (China)

PWMURPHY

PWMURPHY

Well-Known Member
I haven't posted in a while so I thought I would update everyone on happenings in China at Beijing PanAm International Aviation Academy.

Beijing PanAm continues to grow. We are now the ONLY approved flight school in China (certificate #001). We just topped 50 flight instructors and soon will top 270 full-time ab initio, airline sponsored students. We are hiring about 20 instructors each quarter and have a target of 100 flight instructors by early fall. Currently, we have instructors from 20 different countries. We will open our first satellite operation next week and by year's end expect to have at least two more operating.

Before I mention the good things, I'll review the challenges. This is NOT a job for everyone. The living can be harsh at times. This is a developing country after-all and we are not located in one of the more cosmopolitan of the areas in China. The weather in northern China can be quite challenging for VFR flying, especially in the winter and in the summer. So instructors wanting to fly 1000 hours in the first year should pass. Also, the certification process here can sometimes take over 2 months, though in the better weather periods that should be just 6 weeks. But during that time, there is little flying.

The good news is that this is a salaried position even during training. So, whether you are flying or just waiting to get the opportunity, you are still getting paid. And the beginning pay is $2,000 USD per month.

The company uses two hotels at the airport. One is new and very nice the other is satisfactory but far from plush. Food is relatively cheap, especially if you stay away from the hotels. The company pays for your transportation to China and the return. Uniforms are paid as is the health insurance. But don't expect things like health care to always be at your western standard. The company has its own doctors, but emergency and hospital care can be below the level that we have come to expect. There is excellent health-care facilities available in Beijing, 3 1/2 hrs by car from our main base. Families with children need to be forewarned that there are no English speaking schools in the areas where we work.

The contract is a serious one, calling for a 14 month commitment. So, no one should come unless they are truly committed. There are penalties for leaving early, especially if one does not give 3 month's notice of that departure.

2nd term pay (after 14 months) is at least $30,000 USD so there is an opportunity to make decent money here. And the company pays your Chinese taxes so the whole salary goes to you in cash.

If you are interested, and want more details, including not just the good but the challenges as well, email me at p.murphy@panamaviation.com

You can also get more details at the company's English language website www.panamaviation.com/en

We are now hiring for instructors to arrive in May and June. After that, it will be August and September. CFI, CFII, and MEI ratings are required for the full-time instructor positions.

Patrick Murphy
 
Néih hóu from Arizona!

Perhaps you could tell those interested about what types of aircraft the operation flies and if there is opportunity for advancement other than instructing!

I hope all is well! :)
 
Types of Aircraft

Thanks for reminding me, Doug. And yes I am doing well, but I wish we could get the house sold in Florida so my wife could join me full-time.

DA40s and DA42s are the primary trainers. Both have G1000 avionics and the 42s have the Thielert diesel engines. We have 5 DA42s now and will have 10 by June of this year. Our instructors are now just getting checked out in the DA42s and ab initio students will start multi training in a couple of months. There is not a lot of multi-engine flying in the curriculum, but those that stay on for more than one-term can expect to fly more. The usual would be 100 to 150 hours multi time per instructor in a 14 month student cycle.

We will have King Airs in the fleet later this spring and they will be flown by foreign instructors. However, that will take a commitment beyond one 14 month term. We don't want someone to check out in the King Air (which would likely happen near the end of their first 14 month term) and then move on immediately. It will also have higher minimums. Right now there are no minimums for instructing in the DA42s other than having an MEI. I haven't decided where to set that bar for the King Air, but it will likely be 1000 to 1500 total and 200 to 300 multi.

We are working on a tie-in with at least one Chinese airline for right seat time. But this would likely not lead to the Captain seat. This would be a real job and fortunately for the FOs would pay much higher than the usual Chinese pay scale. As most are aware, there is a real shortage of pilots here so the Chinese on a small scale have started hiring foreigners. But I do not want someone coming here to think that they will automotically get a shot at that. And once the Chinese have native pilots to replace the foreigners, I'm sure we will all be moving on. Luckily, their shortage is so real now that the time for them to actually meet the pilot demand is many years in the future.

The $30K after 14 months that we offer might attract some guys who want some income stability and the low cost of living gives the instructors the possibility of actually paying off loans or even putting some money away. And senior pilots make $2,400 more a year than that.

Our expansion is also allowing some guys who want to stay longer in flight training to move up to Assistant Chief Flight Instructor, too. That pay starts at $36K.

Patrick Murphy
 
Hiya Pat!!

Hey Pat! Good to see your still alive and kickin. You were one of the best at at DCA, I wish you success in China and good health.

Sounds like a very interesting gig.

Take Care.
 
I appreciate the kind words.

It is nice to have an opportunity here in China to make a real difference in aviation. But it is a tough environment. Sometimes it makes DCA look like a "cake walk". But I am still glad that I decided to give this a try.

Hope everything is working out well for you, too.

Pat Murphy
 
Wow!

This sounds like the job of my dreams! I'm an air force verteran so adventure and exotic destinations are what I seek and if I can earn money and experience while exploring new cultures, I would be in heaven. I'm planning on getting all my ratings within the next year and hope the job is still available by then. My original plan was to attend a flight academy to get a job at a regional (see the post titled "Feasible or Realistic Plan?" in the general topics section), but your opportunity, for me at least, can't be beat. Thanks for sharing the info about Pan Am, and I hope to speak to you again (in an interview maybe?) within a year.

P.S. This maybe a stupid question, but do flying hours in China count in the states? Also, would working in China affect my current security clearances for the US Air Force? Thanks in advance.
 
Direct track at FSA won't prepare you for this job. But it brings up a good point, let's ask Mr. Murphy what school would be the best to train at to get a shot at a China CFI job?
 
Best "Track" for China?

Let's start out by saying there is no best track for this job or any other. But with that said, I could recommend a few options based on our successful applicants and those who have not been so successful.

1. If you are 18, get a degree. Any degree. Unless you've lived in Africa, Asia, or some other 3rd world country, you're going to need some seasoning and perspective to handle the differences you will experience in China. Plus if you are under 20 we are going to have a difficult time getting you the work visa here. To get that you have to be declared an "expert" and that's a bit difficult if you are young, have little experience, and don't have a degree.

2. We don't care if you have a lot of multi-engine time. Just bring a CFI, CFII, and an MEI with you.

3. Basic commercial pilot skills are a must. We really don't have time to spend hours of training on the basics. Just learning the transition to the Chinese environment and to the DA40 plus the G1000 may take many hours.

4. I would prefer some Part 141 experience as that will help prepare you for adhering to a syllabus and the record-keeping needed in our program. But you could gain that either during your training or by instructing at a Part 141 school for a while.

5. We have several instructors that learned in US universities with aviation programs and they are doing OK. Not for everyone, particularly given the price, but they have learned the skills to do well in China.

6. We also have instructors here from some of the big Academies. They are also doing fine.

7. Besides the pilot skills, you need to bring with you communication skills, tolerance, and patience. Where can you learn those skills?

Pat Murphy
 
Penalties for leaving early

The penalties for leaving early without notice and in the beginning of the contract are as high as $3,500 USD.

The company's direct costs in the first 2 months of the contract (and when the instructors have not started "earning" any money by flying with students) are over $7,000 USD. This includes the airfare to China, initial visa expenses, work permit, medical exams, written tests, hotel expenses, uniform, health care, salary, etc.

Penalties for leaving early but with the proper notice (3 months) are substantially lower, and decrease as the instructor gains seniority during the 14 month contract.

We request the 3 month's notice as that is the approximate time it takes for us to recruit a new instructor as a replacement, from advertisement placement to arrival in China.

All instructors get a copy of the contract before committing to the job. There are no hidden gotchas.

Pat Murphy
 
LC:
It would be inappropriate for me to respond on an internet forum about the real name of any of our employees. Sorry.
Patrick Murphy
 
Hey Pat:
Thanks for posting this info....Right now I am in the Midwest working on my CFI and CFII. I was interested in the position. Here is my question. Is the airplanes being used usable for a guy who is 6'4"? I know the diamonds can be a little tight for a 6'4" person who is all legs. An odd consideration, but a real one
Also, any info about Pan Am doing this say in Europe or anywhere else?

Thanks!

Louie
 
I know in a lot of countries pilot can get jail terms for busting regulations and incidents - is this a concern of yours?

Is it a case that PIC have the final say - I know in Asia they have a lot of tradition on respect their elders/seniors.
 
Louie:
I would suggest you find a DA40 near where you live and "try it on for size." We have a couple of instructors in the 6'4" range and they are not having a problem.

We have no plans to go outside China at this time. Also be aware that Beijng PanAm has no association with any of the PanAms in the USA.

I Money:
We have had a couple of minor incidents already and they were handled appropriately by the authorities. The regs in China are very similar to those in the USA including those regarding PIC.

Patrick Murphy
 
I'm going to slice off a portion of the thread because it's veered away from a "Job Available" into a corporate gripe fest.

The new thread that I created is here

A couple of pointers, we're all adults. If you've got a problem with your situation, walk into the office and air your complaint.

The problem with a semi-anonymous internet forum is that it's very easy to throw flaming spears. I don't think, in the history of mankind, a situation has ever been resolved solely on an internet forum.

If Pat's "The Man", talk to him. If he swings a baseball bat at your head, talk to me and I'll offer to play the role of mediator.

In my personal opinion, if you want to go instruct in China, you're working in a foreign country with different customs, rules and societal expectations. The idea that you're going to be in the middle of a foreign country where they've created a small Epcot Center "World Showcase: United States" is a little naive.

Be a professional and talk to Patrick.
 
Thank you Doug...

I have heard about the rants on this forum.

We all came to China because we are all poor aviators and in Canada and the US our profession pays very little yet we have to pay the debts from our passion.

I came to China with an expectation of what it would be like, and I was not wrong in many of my assumptions.
China is a developing country and has had to employ overseas help to produce airline pilots for their expanding aviation network...
Ten years ago there's no way you'd find a bunch of foreigners teaching pilots to fly here...
China has incredible growing pains, and the frustrations are many.

Employees at PanAm are on 14 month contracts. For many instructors here who are in their 20's and 30's that is not a long time, and the experience will benefit them in their futures.

When people ask me about working at PanAm in China I give them the hard facts, in fact I dissuade them from coming.
It is not a place for the unwary, it is a very demanding place to be.

It is probably better than being stuck in some place out in Canada's tundra however :)

Still, after all I have said to them, some chaps decide to come anyway... But these guys are well prepared and accept that they are not coming to Shangri La, but a place called China, as alien to a westerner as the surface of Mars!

I don't always agree with Patrick, he has a rosier point of view with regard to China.
I try to state the hard facts.
I don't want to work with a bunch of moaners, I want professional people who are willing to do their jobs for fair pay, and who can live with some adversity.

In return we can pay our bills, learn to appreciate where we've come from, and become more Worldly.

I recently escaped to Thailand... It was hot, and there are too many smiling women... I had to go and fly the CAP10C and do the arduous job of teaching the slow roll... (Try it from 80KIAS, 'works well...).
You can bank days to tour Asia, and escape this madness for a while.

Now I'm back in reality... Carrying out operations at Binzhou with no control tower, just a Unicom, no-one to tell us what to do...
Sometimes the military restrict us (maybe we're having too much fun), but above all, at Binzhou we can do our job and life's not that bad after all.

The money is reasonable, good for most poverty stricken instructors, but don't come here for the money alone.
Come here to do your job, professionally, and to be a part of China's aviation renaissance.

Michael Peare, CFI @ Binzhou
You can find me on the web!
 
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