Flight Instructor--and may eventually stop piloting

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Not trying to be a prick

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Not trying very hard....looking forward to your post when you get your airline job, you should have plenty of time now and the famed ACE, what's the hold up?
 
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three guys just started groundschool at Mesaba on Monday

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Probably true..but nothing more than PFT, pay 60K and get a slot..everyone wins.
 
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Lastly, because this field is so competative and many pilots are willing to work for low wages (again some even work for free), it is difficult to pay the bills.

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Yeah, tell me about it. Check out this post from a newbie cfi read about six months ago. Sheez, this guys working for free are going to be the end of us.

Mav back in December:
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I never charge students for any ground school!


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If that were true, then Pan Am graduates would stop coming to Sawyer looking for any work they can get and my flight instructor job. Now take your salesmen propaganda and shove it! Have some respect for people on this website.

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Yeah, I can count the number of CFIs that completed the program that Pan Am didn't hire on one hand. I'd venture to say that the guys your talking to aren't telling the whole truth. Who would like to admit that they either couldn't cut it, or were too much of a moron to get on here. My other theory is that they are online instructors trying to see if the grass is greener on the other side. Well, our new guys don't fly that much but I'd take it over the FBO anyday.
 
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[Who would like to admit that they either couldn't cut it, or were too much of a moron to get on here.

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Couldn't cut the academy lifestyle, or the training? I couldn't imagine it being any more difficult to cut it at Pan-Am as it would be anywhere else, pending the student does their part. There's never any free rides.
 
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[Who would like to admit that they either couldn't cut it, or were too much of a moron to get on here.

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Couldn't cut the academy lifestyle, or the training? I couldn't imagine it being any more difficult to cut it at Pan-Am as it would be anywhere else, pending the student does their part. There's never any free rides.

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The need potential students to believe that the academy lifestyle consists of career pilot training that is only cut out for a "elite few" or the "best of the best" to trick customers into paying 10 of thousands extra for their school. That's why they personally attack and insult anyone who doesn't like the academy; just a marketing ploy but hopefully it reveals what used car salesmen they are.
 
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[Who would like to admit that they either couldn't cut it, or were too much of a moron to get on here.

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Couldn't cut the academy lifestyle, or the training? I couldn't imagine it being any more difficult to cut it at Pan-Am as it would be anywhere else, pending the student does their part. There's never any free rides.

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Yeah, you kinda misunderstood what I meant. When I was writing it I was thinking about how some of the people here aren't the sharpest tools in the shed and you'd have to sink pretty low not to be able to hack it. Grads from academy's aren't necessarily any better or worse then FBO trained pilots. The advantages of academy style training are in areas other then quality.

So Mav, stop giving free ground yet?
 
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What is this a political game? Is that the best dirt you can find on me searching back jetcareers posts for the past six months? Wow, I must hit Pan Am pretty close to the mark because you guys attack me all over the website now. Real professionalism from you guys as always.
 
Well I must admit, I feel a little better about a career as a pilot now. I'm still worried but for now things are looking a little better. I flew with a Southwest pilot in his 182 and I was asking him about the career.

He said that it is difficult, but that I still have a good flying career ahead of me because although the airlines have many problems, the corporate jet and regional airlines will keep doing better. He said I could probably get a job flying one of the CRJs for 100 thousand a year. If so, that would make me happy. I don't even need a lot of money, just a job that I can rely on to be there the next day, and enough to live comfortably and make the work worthwile.
 
Don't hang up your David Clarks just yet! I know 100% where you are coming from. I was thinking about leaving teaching (kids) and only teaching (flying) this year. I simlpy couldn't afford it. As Doug said, this industry is feast or famine. Well, my flight school is feasting right now and I'm in on it. But even flying 3-4 times a day, every day, seven days a week my paycheck was about 1/2 of what I make as a school teacher sans benefits.

Don't let anyone tell you you're in the wrong industry because you are greedy. Maybe they don't know what it's like to pay rent, try to have some food in the fridge, pay car insurance, afford car payments, pay a phone bill, manage student loans, keep the electric company at bay, keep static from forming on your cell phone (You can't hear me now? NOT GOOD!), stop those credit cards from melting, and pay any other bills on 10-15 bucks an hour. And that's NOT a guaranteed 40 hour work week. I'm not in it for the money, but it sure is nice to have a roof over my head and not mess up my credit so I can actually buy a new car or house one day. (Although I would keep my '89 MX-6 with 150,000 miles on it forever if my wife would let me!)

I think if you were in it for the money, you would have high tailed it by now. Don't listen to the naysayers and critics. If you have the passion for it (and you know what IT is) there shouldn't be anything that gets in your way.
 
It's amazing to me how a typical minimum wage worker can often make more money than a CFI.

Look at who has more responsibility...Fast food worker -"would you like fries with that" or CFI - "would you like to live to fly another day".....what's wrong with that picture.

It's no secret that FBO's & flight schools exploit instructors who are hungry to move up to the next level. But those instructors who give away thier time for free don't help the situation.

I'm in the same boat as most of you....I have a decent paying job in the IT - Retail industry. Due to my family and financial situation, I have pretty much resigned myself to just being a Part-time CFI and keeping my current job. I know this sounds like a low goal, but I now consider success in the Aviation field to be making enough money to cover my monthly flying club expenses.


Fly safe,
Mark P. - EFC
 
I gotta throw my hands up and admit it......The best years/chances of becoming an airline pilot are before wife and kids.
 
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Not trying to take things away from your point, but from what I understand many many many people have had it much worse than us! Much!

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Your are correct sir. Hot tar roofers in hell do have it worse.
 
yeah, there's plenty worse. In my earlier career (a decade earlier) as a State Campground Park Ranger, I paid my initial dues by holding a truck-driven pump and pumping you know what (and things you WOULDNT know what) from portable outhouses at campgrounds. I did it cuz I knew the jobs it lead to and as such am not traumatized by it.

This may be somewhat tangential to this thread but I thought of it since a lot of us pilot slash career folks really dread this dilemma of how to get through the "early" career steps in one piece, financially or emotionally or professionally. I am one of them, but for me atleast I have experienced this feeling of being on trial with oneself, if that makes any sense.
 
I'm sure many of us know how you feel in this market. I was in the software field before making the switch. I've been instructing professionally for just over two and a half years now. I was all setup with interviews in August 2001, then nothing for the next two years. Well, there's instructing.

Don't get me wrong, I love instructing and meeting people and helping them accomplish their goals, though my goals just keep getting delayed further and further. I still enjoy knowing that if I have to go to work, it means I'll be in the sky. But I also know how little money you make and the long hours you have to work, because I'm there myself and have been for over two years now. I have a house which I will probably have to sell in six months when the savings run out. I have 1800 hours, and the ratings...

So far in my personal experience, the hiring outlook is bleak, very bleak. I'm starting to get burned out on instructing... yeah yeah it's great, but come on now, after the first thousand hours of dual given it can become a chore at times. All this for long days and low pay.. and the sky.

But damnit, I'm flying which is what I've always wanted to do. I decided that I was going to stick with this thing until I'm broke, At the moment, it's a race to see which happens first: I go broke, burned out from instructing or I get the next job which will allow me to hold on a little longer with maybe just enough pay to cover the bills. I've been actively looking for some time now and am hoping that the dream comes through. That or I'll be heading back to a cubicle, which seems a fate unimaginable to me anymore.

I have a love/hate relationship with flying now. I love it because I'm a captive to the sky, yet hate it because I'm still a captive whatever the costs.
 
yeah, one thing that I have learned a few seasons into being a CFI is two things:

1) Never say to yourself "I have to fly today". Say "I GET to fly today." (I dont care what anyone says, there are times when ya just would rather not fly and do nothing instead... but we gotta appreciate the basic love of it all.)

2) When the pay is bad, especially the 1/2 hour scenic flights or 1/2 hour Intro flights.. I always remind myself the following: "I am flying in an airplane and I am NOT paying for it."
 
Good points, bluelake.

Yesterday I was working on landings with one of my private students. Out of the blue, he just said, "Man, you have the coolest job ever. You get to fly a variety of different airplanes around almost all day every day. I would give anything to have your job."

I didn't really know what to think at first because some days, I sure don't feel like I have the coolest job. But then I got to thinking about it, and I decided that there are definitely worse jobs to have out there. Sure, the hours are long, my boss is a dick, and the pay isn't great...but I'm doing what I love, and what I've wanted to do since I was about 5. Can't beat that.
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That being said, I've been flying my arse off for the past week, so I am DEFINITELY looking forward to my "do-nothing-day" on Tuesday!
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