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I noticed that many airlines still require a flight engineer rating for employment as a pilot. Why is this considering almost every aircraft nowadays no longer needs one?
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Well Im talking about Delta.
MDPilot
Well-Known Member
Brian, Delta hasn't hired any pilots since mid 2001, and probably won't again until 2006-2007 at the earliest. I don't believe Delta is publishing requirements for pilots currently, any info you may have is probably 5 years old at least. And yes, back then Delta was still flying 727 and L-1011 that required an engineer.
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I noticed that many airlines still require a flight engineer rating for employment as a pilot
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Well Im talking about Delta.
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Well, how foolish of me not to have know based on the way you wordy your question.
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Do any airlines that still use FEs have PFEs? I read an article a few years back about the last of Delta's PFEs retiring. Did United or Northwest still have PFEs on their 727s? Does Fedex or UPS still use PFEs?
BTW, speaking of cargo, where did all the old DC-8-71s from Emery go to?
Also speaking of airlines, back when I was flying cargo in my civvie days, no one wanted to fly for [race car driver Connie]Kalitta airlines. Any reason why?
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I noticed that many airlines still require a flight engineer rating for employment as a pilot
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Well Im talking about Delta.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, how foolish of me not to have know based on the way you wordy your question.
[/ QUOTE ]
Do any airlines that still use FEs have PFEs? I read an article a few years back about the last of Delta's PFEs retiring. Did United or Northwest still have PFEs on their 727s? Does Fedex or UPS still use PFEs?
BTW, speaking of cargo, where did all the old DC-8-71s from Emery go to?
Also speaking of airlines, back when I was flying cargo in my civvie days, no one wanted to fly for [race car driver Connie]Kalitta airlines. Any reason why?
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[ QUOTE ]
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I noticed that many airlines still require a flight engineer rating for employment as a pilot
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Well Im talking about Delta.
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Well, how foolish of me not to have know based on the way you wordy your question.
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Lol, allright. I meant what about Delta.
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I noticed that many airlines still require a flight engineer rating for employment as a pilot
[/ QUOTE ]
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Well Im talking about Delta.
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Well, how foolish of me not to have know based on the way you wordy your question.
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Lol, allright. I meant what about Delta.
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
UPS's F/E seats are rapidly becoming occupied by ORCFE's. Old Retired Captain Flight Engineers. You see, once a pilot turns 60 years old, he's not allowed to work for a part 121 airline (so say the federalies). But, an over 60 year old pilot can still make 100K a year as an F/E, and they can retain their company wide seniority number.
It's been interesting to watch the Capts going to the back seat and kind of sad to think they feel the need to keep working past 60. Also sad to see that so many going to the back have fairly high seniority but are stuck with crummy trips they never would have bid back in the day. The 727's are slowly getting parked....I left the fleet cause the good trips went away. Remember when I used to do Seattle-Vancouver? It's now a 757 trip that goes, Vancouver-Seattle-Rockford-sit the sort-Houston. Talk about a ball buster.....
Kalitta was alwasy considered a bottom feeder. Low pay and bad working conditions. It was a place you'd go when you didn't have a lot of options or a place you'd go to fly larger equipment with the idea of moving on.
I'm sure Untied and Northwest at one time had PFE's. PFE's were professional flight engineers who's career track didn't really include becoming a pilot. In fact, at one time they even had their own union. When UPS started the airline, they hired many pilots from the "contract carriers"...Evergreen, Ryan, and Orion come to mind. There were some PFE's at these airlines and they got hired early on as PFE's at UPS. Some very senior numbers. I believe it was in our 1991 contract that we had a clause where UPS offered to pay for these guys to get their ratings and upgrade (or attempt to upgrade) to the right seat. You see, PFE's got F/O pay instead of S/O pay....so they cost the company extra money. Some guys opted to become F/O's and made it through training. Some opted to stay as PFE's but got downgraded to S/O pay. To this day, I'll venture to say all, or nearly all, of the first group of PFE's have retired. But there are many, many "new" PFE's that are over age 60, ex-pilots.
I'm not sure what will happen when the 727's, DC-8's, and 747's are gone but all those guys will be forced off the payroll someday when their position is eliminated.
It's been interesting to watch the Capts going to the back seat and kind of sad to think they feel the need to keep working past 60. Also sad to see that so many going to the back have fairly high seniority but are stuck with crummy trips they never would have bid back in the day. The 727's are slowly getting parked....I left the fleet cause the good trips went away. Remember when I used to do Seattle-Vancouver? It's now a 757 trip that goes, Vancouver-Seattle-Rockford-sit the sort-Houston. Talk about a ball buster.....
Kalitta was alwasy considered a bottom feeder. Low pay and bad working conditions. It was a place you'd go when you didn't have a lot of options or a place you'd go to fly larger equipment with the idea of moving on.
I'm sure Untied and Northwest at one time had PFE's. PFE's were professional flight engineers who's career track didn't really include becoming a pilot. In fact, at one time they even had their own union. When UPS started the airline, they hired many pilots from the "contract carriers"...Evergreen, Ryan, and Orion come to mind. There were some PFE's at these airlines and they got hired early on as PFE's at UPS. Some very senior numbers. I believe it was in our 1991 contract that we had a clause where UPS offered to pay for these guys to get their ratings and upgrade (or attempt to upgrade) to the right seat. You see, PFE's got F/O pay instead of S/O pay....so they cost the company extra money. Some guys opted to become F/O's and made it through training. Some opted to stay as PFE's but got downgraded to S/O pay. To this day, I'll venture to say all, or nearly all, of the first group of PFE's have retired. But there are many, many "new" PFE's that are over age 60, ex-pilots.
I'm not sure what will happen when the 727's, DC-8's, and 747's are gone but all those guys will be forced off the payroll someday when their position is eliminated.
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
Evergreen is known to furlough out of seniority rather than retrain. I know many UPS pilots that used to work there and it was a stepping stone for them. With the way things are now...a guy might be stuck there for a while. I guess there are worse things....
Kitty Hawk took a turn for the worse when the mail went to Fedex. They probably have a lot of guys on furlough.
Both Evergreen and Kitty Hawk fly biger jets for as much or more than you'd make at a regional. If it were me, I'd choose them over a regional in a heartbeat, but that's just me....
Kitty Hawk took a turn for the worse when the mail went to Fedex. They probably have a lot of guys on furlough.
Both Evergreen and Kitty Hawk fly biger jets for as much or more than you'd make at a regional. If it were me, I'd choose them over a regional in a heartbeat, but that's just me....
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
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And don't say Herb Kelleher- he's as slimy as any, just a really really good politician.
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With a really popular, and very profitable company!!!!
And don't say Herb Kelleher- he's as slimy as any, just a really really good politician.
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With a really popular, and very profitable company!!!!
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
Can I have a cup??
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Like I said - he's a GREAT politician
He's got everyone there drinking the company kool-aid, although I hear that is starting to change as they grow.
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Yeah, if things are so GREAT, why are the SWA FAs in such nasty negotiations........
If we're can include past CEOs here, my vote goes to C.R. Smith. From what I've read, he actually gave a damn about his company, and his employees. He genuinely listened if an employee came to him with a problem/idea/solution.
Like I said - he's a GREAT politician
He's got everyone there drinking the company kool-aid, although I hear that is starting to change as they grow.
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Yeah, if things are so GREAT, why are the SWA FAs in such nasty negotiations........
If we're can include past CEOs here, my vote goes to C.R. Smith. From what I've read, he actually gave a damn about his company, and his employees. He genuinely listened if an employee came to him with a problem/idea/solution.
