Flight Engineer Question

flyboy04

Well-Known Member
Never thought about it much, but what exactly do you have to do to get a flight engineer ticket? Just pass a written? Do you get an actual certificate? Does it expire, and my last question is would a small rejional airline like to see that you passed the flight engineer written?
 

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
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Never thought about it much, but what exactly do you have to do to get a flight engineer ticket?

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A written test and a practical test in a simulator or actual aircraft.

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Just pass a written?

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Step one!

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Do you get an actual certificate?

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Yup!

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Does it expire?

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Nope, I still have mine!

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and my last question is would a small rejional airline like to see that you passed the flight engineer written?

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I wouldn't even put it on a regional airline-bound resume to tell the truth.
 

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
I think if we built MikeD a FE panel in the "blue room" of an A1 Skyraider, he'd die a happy man!
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
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I think if we built MikeD a FE panel in the "blue room" of an A1 Skyraider, he'd die a happy man!


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Man, what I'd do for a private A-1 Skyraider or Piper PA-48 Enforcer.

C'mon Doug, you got to do the State Department South America gig with me in OV-10s.......

........you'll nearly double your salary overnight, guaranteed.
 

MissedApproach

Well-Known Member
I have a question on this as well. One of roommates is convinced that with an F/E certificate that he could get hired at a major cargo airline with only a few hundred hours (as an F/E, and then as a pilot). I was very skeptical about this but apparently he heard this from his dad who's a 747 FO for Cathay Pacific.

Hogwash?

Seems ridiculous to me.
 

A300Capt

Freight Dawg
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I have a question on this as well. One of roommates is convinced that with an F/E certificate that he could get hired at a major cargo airline with only a few hundred hours (as an F/E, and then as a pilot)

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UPS? NO!
FedEx? NO!
Airborne? NO!
World/Atlas- maybe, but see below.

If there is one out there that your friend thinks he can be hired with just an F/E ticket (called a Professional flight engineer-PFE), he'll need an A&P license with years of experience working on heavy jet equipment. PFE's, and FE's for that matter, are going the way of the dinosaur as airlines are going to cheaper two-man aircraft.
 

MissedApproach

Well-Known Member
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I have a question on this as well. One of roommates is convinced that with an F/E certificate that he could get hired at a major cargo airline with only a few hundred hours (as an F/E, and then as a pilot)

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UPS? NO!
FedEx? NO!
Airborne? NO!
World/Atlas- maybe, but see below.

If there is one out there that your friend thinks he can be hired with just an F/E ticket (called a Professional flight engineer-PFE), he'll need an A&P license with years of experience working on heavy jet equipment. PFE's, and FE's for that matter, are going the way of the dinosaur as airlines are going to cheaper two-man aircraft.

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Thanks A300Capt, the world makes sense again!
Sadly, I could probably show him this thread and he'd still believe he's going to be hired by UPS when he's 21 and be an FO by 23.
 

FL270

New Member
The IPA (the pilots' union at UPS) would undoubtedly have something to say about that. They have the same seniority rights as the pilots of any other airline, and would go absolutely ballistic over such a scheme, and with good reason.

It is possible, I suppose, that one could get an FE job like that for an overseas carrier. Remember, this guy did originally get his info from a Cathay pilot. Aviation is a bit different in other parts of the world.

FL270
 

ShoreFly

Well-Known Member
Missed,

He's not going to be very successful if he chooses to go that route. Right now I have an FE ticket and 3,500 hours as an FE in the DC-10. That makes me competitive if I try to get hired as a PFE, but that’s a road I will not travel, because it WILL NOT land you in the right seat.

Back in the day, when most heavy aircraft required Flight Engineers, you had an “ok” chance of upgrading to the right seat, but now, upgrades at any carrier (Gemini, World, ATA, Polar, Atlas, JAL) are extremely rare if at all since 9-11.
 

A300Capt

Freight Dawg
Tell your roommate that UPS that...a) doesn't hire PFE's and b) Competitive times (when they're hiring) is around 4-5000tt with a couple thousand PIC multi-engine turbine time in a large aircraft.

Tell him the above, plus a couple letters of recommendations (LOR's), will get his resume on the stack to be reviewed. Last I heard, that stack is about 20,000 apps deep. I kid with my f/o sometimes in saying that with my time, type ratings and experience I have right now I'm not sure I'd get called by UPS.

I'm sure he'd run up against the same thing at FedEx. Tell him that the qualifications for employment at UPS, FedEx or Airborne are no different than if he were trying for United, Delta or American. If he's not qualified for the top pax carriers then he's not qualified for the top cargo carriers as well.
 

DE727UPS

Well-Known Member
I've been at UPS 13 years and still don't meet those requirements to get hired. I only had 400 turbine PIC, one type rating, and no LOR's in 1990.

Back in the mid-80's when Hawaiian had DC-8's and L1011's, they would sometimes hire low time guys with the full F/E ticket. A Hawaiian pilot freind encouraged me to get the ticket and he'd walk in my resume. Never heard a word.....
 

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
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C'mon Doug, you got to do the State Department South America gig with me in OV-10s.......

........you'll nearly double your salary overnight, guaranteed.

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That would be fun! But, after I picked up the first small arms tracer, all the fun would be over.

Plus, my wife would kill me!


I've got some friends at work that have OV-10 experience that I told and they're like "What's the max age limit? What's the max age limit?"
 

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
Very often the minimum requirements for FDX and UPS are much higher than they area for UAL, DAL and AMR.

They do a lot of demanding flying in strange time zones so you don't want some 1000 hour hotshot in the right seat shooting the Kai Tak!
 

DE727UPS

Well-Known Member
I don't know, Doug. When I got hired at UPS, it wasn't considered a great place to go to. I won't go into why, but the result was their requirements in the early 90's weren't what they were at the big four or five. Now, times have changed folks look at the stability of the big two freight companies as highly desirable. Had we not had this current downturn, I don't think it would be any harder to get on at UPS than it would be at Delta.
 

Ecl!pse

Well-Known Member
Doug, as the FE, do you also handle radio communications? I've seen on some movies that the FE did handle the radio communications, but i do realize that is just the movies...
 

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
Nah, I only used the radio to confirm the arrival gate or call in range to operations.
 

LostComm

Well-Known Member
Just supposing then, one wanted the FE purely for ego reasons...where/how would one go about it? I guess I'm asking about FE/recip but if the price is similar what about FE/turbojet?
 

TallFlyer

Well-Known Member
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They do a lot of demanding flying in strange time zones so you don't want some 1000 hour hotshot in the right seat shooting the Kai Tak!


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Yeah Doug, I suppose if some hotshot took a FedEx MD-11 into Kai Tek right now FedEx would never hear the end of it......

 

TallFlyer

Well-Known Member
Actually here's a question for those with Alaskan experience (SkyWChris?).... How difficult is it to land a FE or FO position with a DC-6 or C-46 operator? I would imagine that the FE would probably have to be an A&P as well, otherwise you;d never get anywhere, but thats just a guess......

CJ
 
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