FM-2 Fan
Well-Known Member
Working on his private will definitely help, because he'll at least be INTRODUCED to the terminology of aviation.
Flight dispatch school for my son, but it's 2018 now. New poster.
- Thread starter ImNotFlyingEver
- Start date
DispatcherSam
Well-Known Member
If he applies himself, just the DX cert is fine if only dispatching is desired. I had zero experience when I started dispatch school and now I’m at the airline I wanted to get to from the start. It’s all about the effort invested.
who'swho
Don't hesitate. Penetrate!
Actually... The school I went to recommended you pass the PPL. It's been a while so I guess I got it confused with whether it was requirement.
FM-2 Fan
Well-Known Member
As someone who's a bit older, I'd say it's better to have options; you never know when you'll need to exercise them.
DispatcherSam
Well-Known Member
That’s fair. I was in my mid 20s when I got my start.
flyingmedic
Well-Known Member
I’m not sure if you got what you needed....but, for what it’s worth, I’ve never seen (nor heard of) a Pilot License, or a Degree help anyone get a job in Dispatch. Most of the places in the 121 world are going to be governed by some union contract or another. Likely TWU. None of these take into account anything, except years of experience...and time within your own airline.
Either way.....he’ll be fine. It’s exciting being 20 and having all these possible roads to explore! I wish him well!
flyingmedic
Well-Known Member
That’s just crazy.
DogwoodLynx
Well-Known Member
Ah well that makes sense. No worries!
Mainline_or_bust
Airplanes fly on PFM, Change my mind
Pretty sure having PPL is a one up, though it won't matter much because there's so much opportunity out there. If anyone says it doesn't help their naive because we're in such a hiring craze right now. 15 years from now if it slows down you may find different opinions. In the meantime it's a bonus which is pretty cool if you ask me.
FM-2 Fan
Well-Known Member
There's opportunity out there? Could have fooled me! I've been applying for almost two months, and I've only had two or three phone interviews so far.
flyingmedic
Well-Known Member
I agree, it’s not quite as wine and roses as some would have you believe. Now pilots, on the other hand, if you hold the license, and can fog a mirror.....you’re hired.
DogwoodLynx
Well-Known Member
F
Flying Saluki
Guest
It’s great that your son loves airplanes and flying, but there’s a world of difference between being an aviation enthusiast and an aviation professional. Aviation is a 24/7/365 industry, and that means he will be a 24/7/365 employee. That means early mornings, late nights, graveyards, weekends, holidays, and mandatory overtime. As a 20-something he is apt not to care, but will he still want to be doing that at 50? Shift work is hard on the body, and you never really get used to it. It’s the reason airline people tend to die younger. He needs to stop and think about that. That’s not even considering all the pitfalls of the industry; furloughs, displacements, bankruptcies. In the airline business, when you change jobs, you start over at the bottom, with no credit given for seniority or experience.
RetiredATLATC
Well-Known Member
FM-2 Fan
Well-Known Member
Not to mention having to MOVE when said displacements, furloughs, and bankruptcies occur! After a certain point, moving gets OLD; you just get tired of it. Also, what about if he gets married and has a family at some point? Then, should he be displaced, that complicates things even more! As a young, single man, moving is no big deal. However, when a wife and kids are involved, that changes things a lot. Whether the kid is displaced or changes jobs voluntarily, moving is a necessary part of the job.
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CrippleHawk
Well-Known Member
If he wants to be a dispatcher. He should take the ADX first prior to school...Trust me I wish I did long ago
Kev
RNP 2112
Great advice so far and welcome.
Just to give you an idea of the diversity in prior experience I've come across in the three carriers I've worked for -
Maybe half had a pilot license at airlines 1 and 2 (total dispatchers approx. 50). Maybe a quarter at airline 3 (approx. 400 dispatchers).
Airlines 1 and 2 were essentially "entry-level" airlines. The kind your son would apply to at first. Now, you might think that 50% would be indicative of a hiring preference. That's open to debate. If one has prior experience as a pilot, one should know the existence of the dispatch profession and may find it appealing and possibly preferable as a job vs. flying in the end. Whereas the general population with no aviation experience overwhelmingly has no idea we exist.
(Airline 3 is an outlier as it has promoted from within for quite a while - overwhelmingly from different departments. And is also an amalgamation of various airline mergers over the decades. Also, external hires were more valued for their dispatch aptitude and career experience. Pilots' licenses likely make little or no difference at all in the hiring decision process. So I'll focus on 1 and 2 for some examples)
The dispatchers with a pilot license fell overwhelmingly into a few categories.
- Pilots who lost their medical fitness - either for a period of time or permanently.
- Pilots "between things" like airlines that went out of business. Or employment terminated for other reasons.
- Pilots who thought getting into dispatch was a "foot in the door" toward the flight deck.
- Pilots who never operated commercially (only as students) that needed a job to start paying off those massive loans. Some just stuck around.
- Pilots who had operated commercially and decided the job and lifestyle was not right fit. Some at least, insofar as to how they would be treated or paid in their starting job while possibly waiting forever for a job at a major airline that might never happen.
Many got their dispatch licenses as a backup. Which, I think, is generally a smart thing to do. Especially when considering the reasons listed above. Anything can happen in a pilots career. And it frequently does.
However, the employer isn't always in the know as to their situation in the above categories 1-4. The question "why do you want to be a dispatcher instead of flying?" might very well be asked in the interview process. The applicant can misrepresent their reasoning. Many applicants have. As a matter of fact, I would generally be less inclined to hire one with pilot experience unless they gave me the answer relating to category 5. Unless I loved high turnover, in which case I would simply think that prior aviation experience is such a huge plus comparing one applicant to another.
Quite frankly, the most of the worst dispatchers I've ever worked with were at one time employed pilots. I find a different mindset is helpful. And some of those (and other pilots) didn't stick around. They wanted to fly. Duh. Give me an applicant that wants to be a dispatcher. Even if he has a college degree in something other than aviation.
Now, I might be projecting my own experience and background on to this post so far. So it may not entirely be objective even though I think I make quite a few solid points. This is mostly for you, the original poster and/or the son, to consider even if it doesn't directly address many of your written questions so far. It can also apply for posterity.
When I started my career 9 years ago I had no prior aviation experience. I was close to finishing a music degree. But I checked out the gig after hearing my dad (a pilot) mention the profession. Like everyone else in the general public I had no idea the job existed. It looked really cool and I just dropped what I was doing and dove in head first. Working in a "control center" seemed really appealing for some reason. Glad I did. I absolutely love what I do for a living. Especially now that I get paid better than my entry-level dispatch job
One of the things most mentioned in these forums to people starting out is that a passion for aviation will often shine through to some potential employer and thus a passion for aviation will get you far in the career, etc. In many cases that's true, but it's not necessary. A persons attitude beats any time at altitude (now my registered trademark ;-).
I have an admission. Even though I have a passion for my job I could not care less about aviation. I have absolutely zero desire to fly a plane. By sight, I can't point out a 737 vs 757 and a lot of other planes. I'm pretty good about 747s and 380s, that's it. I have no desire to learn either. I really, honestly, don't give a darn. At all. No passion - zero. Hey, working for an airline is nice since I get flight benefits. But I could just as easily be a train dispatcher otherwise.
Doesn't mean I am disinterested in continuous learning to improve my job skills or that I don't have a desire to know as much as I can to apply to my proud profession. I'm not disinterested in my job. I want to be good at it. I just don't care about aviation.
Seem strange? Yeah, it probably isn't the norm. I say this because there's a lot more to consider as to the nature of the job and if it may be a great fit.
Here are "at-large" qualities of the job that I love:
Collaborative and individual decision-making.
Application and knowledge of law.
Responsibility: being a necessary and important component in a chain of efforts and procedures for the purpose of safety.
Multitasking.
Merging conceptual principles of physics and math in a real-world scenario with a tangible result.
Logistics management: What's happening "behind the curtain" and what is everyone's role. My role is crucial.
A changing working environment: every day is not the same.
Creating the best balance between efficiency and safety (with safety first).
Always learning something new.
Striving for attention to details.
The personal satisfaction that comes with a job well done from a series of consequential decisions and the self-awareness to critique and learn from when decisions could have been better.
Personally:
Geography and cartography (I've just always been drawn to them)
Meteorology can be really cool to delve into.
Working in a "control center." I have a kindred connection with minions at controls in the evil lair of a James Bond villain. Or NASA (either/or, lol ).
We have so many "toys." Cool software programs, touchscreen phones, etc.
Being a "Conductor." Following a complex score (the operation of the airline) and knowing when to prompt the sections to play (company departments).
My job is just cool and interesting.
I think your son is doing the right thing by majoring in something other than aviation while considering other options. If he has a passion to fly, then there's nothing that can stop him. Some folks get up there and they get "the bug" and that's all they want to do. In which case, of course you only live once and chase your dreams.
If not - this job and its quality of life is worth looking into before dropping Ten Thou on a pilot license. The business degree and knowledge could serve very well in an operational environment as he will be immersed in learning quite a bit about airline organizational structure, efficiency, and other concepts which may pique his interest in possibly moving into another valuable role within the airline.
Just my $50.
Just to give you an idea of the diversity in prior experience I've come across in the three carriers I've worked for -
Maybe half had a pilot license at airlines 1 and 2 (total dispatchers approx. 50). Maybe a quarter at airline 3 (approx. 400 dispatchers).
Airlines 1 and 2 were essentially "entry-level" airlines. The kind your son would apply to at first. Now, you might think that 50% would be indicative of a hiring preference. That's open to debate. If one has prior experience as a pilot, one should know the existence of the dispatch profession and may find it appealing and possibly preferable as a job vs. flying in the end. Whereas the general population with no aviation experience overwhelmingly has no idea we exist.
(Airline 3 is an outlier as it has promoted from within for quite a while - overwhelmingly from different departments. And is also an amalgamation of various airline mergers over the decades. Also, external hires were more valued for their dispatch aptitude and career experience. Pilots' licenses likely make little or no difference at all in the hiring decision process. So I'll focus on 1 and 2 for some examples)
The dispatchers with a pilot license fell overwhelmingly into a few categories.
- Pilots who lost their medical fitness - either for a period of time or permanently.
- Pilots "between things" like airlines that went out of business. Or employment terminated for other reasons.
- Pilots who thought getting into dispatch was a "foot in the door" toward the flight deck.
- Pilots who never operated commercially (only as students) that needed a job to start paying off those massive loans. Some just stuck around.
- Pilots who had operated commercially and decided the job and lifestyle was not right fit. Some at least, insofar as to how they would be treated or paid in their starting job while possibly waiting forever for a job at a major airline that might never happen.
Many got their dispatch licenses as a backup. Which, I think, is generally a smart thing to do. Especially when considering the reasons listed above. Anything can happen in a pilots career. And it frequently does.
However, the employer isn't always in the know as to their situation in the above categories 1-4. The question "why do you want to be a dispatcher instead of flying?" might very well be asked in the interview process. The applicant can misrepresent their reasoning. Many applicants have. As a matter of fact, I would generally be less inclined to hire one with pilot experience unless they gave me the answer relating to category 5. Unless I loved high turnover, in which case I would simply think that prior aviation experience is such a huge plus comparing one applicant to another.
Quite frankly, the most of the worst dispatchers I've ever worked with were at one time employed pilots. I find a different mindset is helpful. And some of those (and other pilots) didn't stick around. They wanted to fly. Duh. Give me an applicant that wants to be a dispatcher. Even if he has a college degree in something other than aviation.
Now, I might be projecting my own experience and background on to this post so far. So it may not entirely be objective even though I think I make quite a few solid points. This is mostly for you, the original poster and/or the son, to consider even if it doesn't directly address many of your written questions so far. It can also apply for posterity.
When I started my career 9 years ago I had no prior aviation experience. I was close to finishing a music degree. But I checked out the gig after hearing my dad (a pilot) mention the profession. Like everyone else in the general public I had no idea the job existed. It looked really cool and I just dropped what I was doing and dove in head first. Working in a "control center" seemed really appealing for some reason. Glad I did. I absolutely love what I do for a living. Especially now that I get paid better than my entry-level dispatch job
One of the things most mentioned in these forums to people starting out is that a passion for aviation will often shine through to some potential employer and thus a passion for aviation will get you far in the career, etc. In many cases that's true, but it's not necessary. A persons attitude beats any time at altitude (now my registered trademark ;-).
I have an admission. Even though I have a passion for my job I could not care less about aviation. I have absolutely zero desire to fly a plane. By sight, I can't point out a 737 vs 757 and a lot of other planes. I'm pretty good about 747s and 380s, that's it. I have no desire to learn either. I really, honestly, don't give a darn. At all. No passion - zero. Hey, working for an airline is nice since I get flight benefits. But I could just as easily be a train dispatcher otherwise.
Doesn't mean I am disinterested in continuous learning to improve my job skills or that I don't have a desire to know as much as I can to apply to my proud profession. I'm not disinterested in my job. I want to be good at it. I just don't care about aviation.
Seem strange? Yeah, it probably isn't the norm. I say this because there's a lot more to consider as to the nature of the job and if it may be a great fit.
Here are "at-large" qualities of the job that I love:
Collaborative and individual decision-making.
Application and knowledge of law.
Responsibility: being a necessary and important component in a chain of efforts and procedures for the purpose of safety.
Multitasking.
Merging conceptual principles of physics and math in a real-world scenario with a tangible result.
Logistics management: What's happening "behind the curtain" and what is everyone's role. My role is crucial.
A changing working environment: every day is not the same.
Creating the best balance between efficiency and safety (with safety first).
Always learning something new.
Striving for attention to details.
The personal satisfaction that comes with a job well done from a series of consequential decisions and the self-awareness to critique and learn from when decisions could have been better.
Personally:
Geography and cartography (I've just always been drawn to them)
Meteorology can be really cool to delve into.
Working in a "control center." I have a kindred connection with minions at controls in the evil lair of a James Bond villain. Or NASA (either/or, lol ).
We have so many "toys." Cool software programs, touchscreen phones, etc.
Being a "Conductor." Following a complex score (the operation of the airline) and knowing when to prompt the sections to play (company departments).
My job is just cool and interesting.
I think your son is doing the right thing by majoring in something other than aviation while considering other options. If he has a passion to fly, then there's nothing that can stop him. Some folks get up there and they get "the bug" and that's all they want to do. In which case, of course you only live once and chase your dreams.
If not - this job and its quality of life is worth looking into before dropping Ten Thou on a pilot license. The business degree and knowledge could serve very well in an operational environment as he will be immersed in learning quite a bit about airline organizational structure, efficiency, and other concepts which may pique his interest in possibly moving into another valuable role within the airline.
Just my $50.
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If your son is deeply interested in an aviation career, I would recommend at his age to research internship opportunities at a Major Airline. It would provide an immersive environment, foster relationships and introduce him to mentorship. His PPL would introduce the basics of aviation vernacular, aerodynamics and overall lingo, but It's the "Instrument Rating" that better prepares a dispatcher for the job. The ability to read and understand approach plates, derive minimums, high and low IFR Charts and etc. If your son enjoys learning, is disciplined, competitive and can overcome the many obstacles in this profession, he should find a rewarding career in aviation.
I would recommend that your son obtain his dispatch certificate closer to the age of 23, unless he is immersed in the info elsewhere. Most airline interviews have a technical component to them (both oral and written exam) and you will want as much of that info fresh on the mind.
All the best to your son....Good Luck!
I would recommend that your son obtain his dispatch certificate closer to the age of 23, unless he is immersed in the info elsewhere. Most airline interviews have a technical component to them (both oral and written exam) and you will want as much of that info fresh on the mind.
All the best to your son....Good Luck!
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