Flight delays pile up Monday after FAA budget cuts

genot said:
Its also why ATC has staffed to normal and not peak levels. We've taken hits too. Your favored road to go private ATC didn't exactly go so when well they cut pay during the IWR's. At first it was all like, hey come work a hub. There is no extra pay you'll work 6 days a week, you'll get divorced, never see a vacation or time off. Now believe it or not there wasn't a rush to go to the hubs. Crazy I know.

Believe it or not that didn't work so well.

Shiny Jet Syndrome > Shiny Scope Syndrome I suppose?
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I'm not really familiar with the paycut that was instituted except that it wasn't for current controllers. only for newhires. During the majority of the time it was implemented, the economy was in one of the best growth periods, well, ever. It's not surprising they were hurting for people. I know the airlines couldn't hire enough people.

I'd love to get my hands on the costs for a contract tower vs. FAA with similar operation counts. Without that I'm just speculating.

People go to the controller side because of the $$, which is why you have people willing to come work at the airlines for such low wages initially. We've had a few guys leave to be controllers, I'm jealous of the $$ but not of the job.
 
It w
wheelsup said:
I'm not really familiar with the paycut that was instituted except that it wasn't for current controllers. only for newhires. During the majority of the time it was implemented, the economy was in one of the best growth periods, well, ever. It's not surprising they were hurting for people. I know the airlines couldn't hire enough people.

I'd love to get my hands on the costs for a contract tower vs. FAA with similar operation counts. Without that I'm just speculating.

People go to the controller side because of the $$, which is why you have people willing to come work at the airlines for such low wages initially. We've had a few guys leave to be controllers, I'm jealous of the $$ but not of the job.
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It wasn't for current controllers? I'll be sure after my furlough day to tell everyone that. NATCA didn't fold and concede a B scale. Nobody had seen a longevity raise at my facility for about a decade.
 
I've always said. The worst part of my job is 8 hours of sleep in 40 hours while you alternate getting slammed and working almost zero planes in the dark. For IWR wages I could make more selling cars during normal human hours.
 
It was my understanding that was for newhires. Ah well, doesn't really matter. System ran better back then than it will apparently now.
 
genot said:
I've always said. The worst part of my job is 8 hours of sleep in 40 hours while you alternate getting slammed and working almost zero planes in the dark. For IWR wages I could make more selling cars during normal human hours.
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Employees have no idea what benefits cost. You seriously can't discount the cost of benefits, especially federal workers with pensions. Upwards of 50% of your pay will go toward your pension per year, a cost you do not bear like we do in the private industry.
 
wheelsup said:
Employees have no idea what benefits cost. You seriously can't discount the cost of benefits, especially federal workers with pensions. Upwards of 50% of your pay will go toward your pension per year, a cost you do not bear like we do in the private industry.
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I actually do know what they cost as its printed out item by item on employeeexpress.gov. I've borne mine out in another thread and I can add an additional level of expertise having been a professional health insurance adjuster. For the record its far less that half of what you suppose it to be and yeah I bear the lions share of my retirement. The system ran better pre IWR because you actually got a raise for working 3 times as much traffic.

Yup, I'm forced out in current rules by 56 (hence why I contribute to the IRS cap). I get better benefits that the average Joe for sure to compensate. I don't think anything I'm given as a benefit of employment will stick, but feel free to use it against me.

I never thought I'd get worked up enough to say this to a pilot and especially not here, but, in my role a as far too expensive / lazy public employee I managed to save tax payers a 46 million dollar strike fighter. Just take my coworkers extra cost difference out of my tab.
 
Seggy said:
genot, y'all do a great job and I feel you guys are underpaid for what you do. Don't listen to pilots who say otherwise. They need to pull their head out of the sand.
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Nobody is calling them lazy. Aren't you pro-user fees? I'm surprised you are pro-user fee but anti-privatize ATC.
 
Yes, I support user fees. I also know ATC is not the place one wants to privatize a government service.

The controller contracts aren't the problem here. It is piss poor management in Congress.
 
You know, as a controller a single mistake doesn't carry the same potential peril as a Captain or FO. Having said that, my clearances are dissected to microscopic levels (one thousandth of a mile). It would be as if a commercial pilot were routinely audited for airspeed fluctuations of more than a single knot (and respectfully, pilots are wrong 3-1 in my favor). Regardless of what any pilot thinks I was busting my rear to slam planes in earlier today. Furlough or not I'd be a laughing stock if I slacked.

I can also tell you unequivocally that for IWR pay, this job is NOT worth it. I made more slurping coffee in airside ops at PIT than I did as a fully certified level ten controller during that cluster.

I really appreciate Seggy's assertion that we're underpaid. I'm not sure where the line is, and I'm not justifying pilot pay (Ya'll are totally underpaid), but if you're running a PRM scope you probably deserve more than first year CA Regional pay.

About privatization. A controller I work with got a call from FSS for an IFR clearance. blah blah blah flight level blah blah. FSS "Got it but what is a flight level?" Same company that was too busy to take a call from the facility on the dial line for severe turbulence. I called the PIREP in on my cell phone..
 
FM_Weasel said:
I don't think you'd ever hear a difference on the radio, all the workable positions are still going to be staffed. The problem is that, with controllers on furlough, cancellation of overtime, sick leave hits, and the already short staffing of many facilities, facilities won't be able to split sectors off that are normally split. Instead of having 2 or 3 controllers working an area during peak times, you may just have 1. Pilots wouldn't hear anything different, the traffic is still split up among many frequencies and the overall traffic load is probably similar, but it could present a much higher workload situation for the fewer controllers.

Flow control will hopefully be intelligently implemented to avoid saturating the controllers while minimizing delays.
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I noticed the other day. LA center had one guy working a huge area that I am usually handed off to three different people for. "XXX, switch to my frequency, 119.05." Thought it was odd, and then realized why.
 
Seggy said:
How would you feel if you were given eleven unpaid days of work between now and September?
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I would take my frustration out on the proper people and not be an ass about it. Or act like a child. To bad you don't have to pass an "act like an adult test" to be a controller/pilot. I think many would fail it.
 
mshunter said:
I would take my frustration out on the proper people and not be an ass about it. Or act like a child. To bad you don't have to pass an "act like an adult test" to be a controller/pilot. I think many would fail it.
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Huh?

I'd like to know how you think things would go smoothly when facilities, which are already operating under forced overtime for controllers, could function safely, when the staffing levels are cut daily???
 
Seggy said:
Huh?

I'd like to know how you think things would go smoothly when facilities, which are already operating under forced overtime for controllers, could function safely, when the staffing levels are cut daily???
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Nice dodge of the point I was making. I don't expect them to. But look back at what you said about being angry and taking it out on the system, instead of the proper people. It's not the pilots faults.
 
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